Thursday, June 30, 2011

You Are What You Eat: The "Other" Salmon

This Saturday, July 2nd, the Tour de France bicycle cycling race will begin. As it happens, I'm supposed to write about this bicycle cycling race for the "Bicycling" magazine website, so with only two days to go I figured I might as well look into who's actually competing in it. In this sense, I am heading into the unknown--just like Alberto Contador:

So will Contador win the Tour again? Well, that depends on two things:

1) Is he too tired after winning the Giro of Italy?

and;

2) Can he win without meat?

Yes, that's right, after falling victim to the steak that bites back last year, Contador has given up the red stuff:

Contador Gives up Meat

Contador says he has stopped eating meat since testing positive for clenbuterol on last year's Tour de France, a result he blamed on contaminated steak.

The 28-year-old favourite to win this year's Tour, which gets underway on Saturday, also said in an interview published on Wednesday that his Saxo Bank team will have its own cook this year.

"No, I have not eaten meat again," he told sports daily Marca when asked if he had eaten meat since traces of clenbuterol were discovered in a test on the second rest day of the 2010 Tour, which he won.


You've got to admire Contador for not only sticking to the tainted steak story, but also going so far as to give up meat altogether in order to make it seem more convincing. It's like the "Seinfeld" episode where Jerry had to wear glasses all the time so he wouldn't offend Lloyd Braun. Still, I'm not buying the part about Saxo Bank hiring its own cook, since that sounds expensive. I'm pretty sure when they say "cook" they just mean they're giving one of the mechanics a copy of "Babe's Country Cookbook: 80 Complete Meat-Free Recipes from the Farm" and telling him to get to work:

Babe says, "Don't eat the little piggies."

Meanwhile, a fellow Tweeterer informs me that Dave Zabriskie is attempting to do Contador one better by riding the entire Tour De France on a vegan diet:

This might be newsworthy, except for the fact that as part of his "vegan" diet Zabriskie "plans to eat small amounts of salmon two days per week," which means his diet is about as vegan as Babe's ass is kosher.

Now, when it comes to eating, I say eat whatever as long as it's not endangered, makes you happy, and keeps you regular. Want to join the "nose to tail movement?" Good for you. Want to go vegan because you can't stand even the thought of a human hand tugging on a bovine udder? Perfectly fine. Want to eat the heart of your human enemy while it's still beating so that you may absorb his powers? Well, you probably shouldn't do that, if only for sanitary reasons.

But regardless of what you eat, you don't get to call yourself a vegan if you eat salmon. That's it. Once that pink flesh passes your lips you're out of the squat and banned from the coop. Turn in your hemp shoes to the smelly guy lying on a mattress he pulled from a Dumpster, and don't let the door with the punk show flyers all over it hit you in the ass on the way out. That's all there is to it. If you need a fancy, pretentious name for yourself, then I guess you can call yourself a "pescetarian." (That's someone who only eats Joe Pesci.) But all it really means is you're not a vegan; you're just another lox-munching schmuck.

Anyway, apparently Zabriskie is being mentored by another pretend-vegan athlete:

Zabriskie also consulted with a professional motorcycle racer, Ben Bostrom, also a vegan, who advised Zabriskie to include small amounts of fish a couple of times a week because of the incredibly large load he puts on his body during training. "He told me, don't get too hung up on the word 'vegan'," says Zabriskie. The fish, Zabriskie says, helps his body absorb certain vitamins and iron.

Again, I don't care what people are eating, but the word "vegan" means what it means. Don't get too hung up on the word "vegan?!?" Getting hung up about stuff is what being a vegan is all about! He's as bad as these minimalists who only have 15 things...except their accessory chargers. And their toiletries. And the fully-equipped luxury condo and summer house they share with their wife. Certain areas of life need to remain black and white, and the profoundly irritating self-righteousness of veganism is one of them. I mean, what if you replace the word "vegan" with "clean," and the word "fish" with "EPO?"

Zabriskie also consulted with a professional motorcycle racer, Ben Bostrom, also a clean rider, who advised Zabriskie to include small amounts of EPO a couple of times a week because of the incredibly large load he puts on his body during training. "He told me, don't get too hung up on the word 'clean'," says Zabriskie.

Or, what if you used "virgin" and "sexual intercourse?"

Zabriskie also consulted with a professional motorcycle racer, Ben Bostrom, also a virgin rider, who advised Zabriskie to include small amounts of sexual intercourse a couple of times a week because of the incredibly large load he puts on his body during training. "As he caressed me, he told me, don't get too hung up on the word 'virgin'," says Zabriskie.

I may have added a few extra words there, but I think you see my point. Being a vegan is like being a virgin: you either is, or you ain't. As far as I'm concerned, Zabriskie can eat all the salmon he wants. But he doesn't get to call himself a vegan, and he's officially out of contention for the maillot hemp traditionally given to the vegan riding highest on the GC. Nor does he get to wear a vegan tattoo:

(Vegans often opt for wrist placement since the word "vegan" is incompatible with knuckle tattoos.)

One rider who would never play fast and loose with the definition of veganism is the time-traveling t-shirt-wearing retro-Fred from the planet Tridork--or, as one reader informs me he is now called, "Bret:"


"If it rains take the bus," you say? Well not Bret! He trains for that century even when it's cloudy and drizzly:

Bret is clearly logging some serious miles. I don't know which charity ride he's training for, but I'm pretty sure he's going to dominate it.

Meanwhile, in the comments to yesterday's post (Critical Mass guy is still emailing me by the way), commenter "Mikeweb" linked to a distressing article:

I'd love it if we never had to read about a serious bicycle accident. However, as long as we do, it would be nice if the reporters could at least not always go out of their way to immediately mention whether or not the rider was wearing a helmet:

Ray Deter, 53, owner of d.b.a. New York in the East Village and d.b.a. Brooklyn in Williamsburg, was not wearing a helmet when he was hit on Canal St. as he headed to work.

What is the point of this, apart from unnecessarily heaping additional blame on the rider? He may have turned heedlessly as the article says, but whether or not he was wearing a helmet at the time has nothing to do with that decision. It's like the "Vegan Times" reporting on the incident and writing, "The victim had eaten a hamburger earlier in the day." It's a tacit judgment, and it's a device reporters love to use when writing about cycling.

Also, it takes two to have a collision, but I guess we just have to assume the 24 year-old in the Jaguar who keeps his weed in the car was driving safely (on Canal Street, where nobody ever speeds)--and also wearing his helmet, since the article doesn't say anything to the contrary.

On a much happier note, I've been waiting and waiting, and finally someone has reviewed the Mario Cipollini bike:


There were a bunch of words in the review, but these were the only ones I noticed:

a peach
tube shapes
curving around the rear
head
oversized, tapered
planted
seriously aggressive position
deep-section
riding position
feels close
full-on
massively oversized
taut
great fun to ride hard
overbuilt and stiff
buzz
vibration
remarkably good
spend all day
aggressive position
always in an ‘attack’ position
a lot of pressure on your lower back
not easy to sit up

Whew! I feel dirty.

Slap a noseless saddle on that and you may never experience "down time" again.

250 comments:

1 – 200 of 250   Newer›   Newest»
ant1 said...

ant1st!

Anonymous said...

NINE TIMES!!!

ant1 said...

booya

Anonymous said...

top ten, at last?

wishiwasmerckx said...

Just missed the podium!

chazu said...

fingerbang

Anonymous said...

fuck break

Anonymous said...

base.OnMouseWheel( e );

Fred said...

Top ten Fred! Glad the boot held up for the sprint.

ringcycles said...

congrats Ant1st.

theEel said...

half in

samh said...

High five, ant1!

Anonymous Coward said...

Just to screw Rural's day up: Ant2nd!

Anonymous said...

bromptoneers!

Anonymous said...

And read!

Chazu said...

Missed the podium because I'm meatless.

OBA said...

Vegan 1st!

Gaffer Smythe said...

Snob's on a roll, and not Bob...

I've LOL'd at least once every blog this week.

crosspalms said...

What, no dancing "go vegan" girls? My sister used to be a vegetarian who ate fish sticks. I thought that was a stretch. Now she does too.

Anonymous said...

Scraping into the top 20....having read, too....?

hey nonny mouse

ringcycles said...

Hey BSNYC, half the girls at Christian Academys graduate with their purity pledge ring still on because they don't get too hung up on the word "virgin".

Don't knock people's immense capacity for self delusion too hard. Remember, no self delusion, no bike racing.

Marcel Da Chump said...

Zabriskie will meat Contador at the finish line.

Matt said...

there was an article in Bicycling magazine a few months back about Zabriskie going vegan. In it he states that he is not as concerned about eating a vegan diet as he is a healthy diet.

I think the media has attached the term vegan to him more so than he does himself.

BTW, i am neither a vegan or a DZnuts fan.

Terre Haute Karl said...

Nice Seinfeld reference. Although you could have referenced half the episodes in the series as George was always going above & beyond to maintain a lie.

Tyler said...

I like attention to detail you put into modifying the NYT ads.

wishiwasmerckx said...

I think that we have misinterpreted Mr. Zabriske's comments. I believe that when he labelled himself a "Vegan," he was saying that he is from Las Vegas.

I, too , take all of my dietary advice from a guy who rides a Harley-Davidson. I suppose that is why I suck so bad.

Anonymous said...

Fuck that, I'm buying a Kit-Kat.

leroy said...

ant1 wins again?

The podium is starting to look like a picnic.

Wonder if he's gone Vegan?

xyxax said...

How is it that Bret's average cadence is usually higher than his average heart rate?

I think his mechanic slipped a beta-blocker in his pump frites.

g said...

I'm sure Dave will have a 'successful' Tour as long as he doesn't get too hung up on the word 'podium'.

I am a giggling engine said...

Why does "slap a nose saddle on that" sound even filthier than all of the other adjectives completely irrelevent to a bicycle's description.

NOSE SADL

folding penny farthing said...

I guess i don't mind reporters mentioning helmet wearing when reporting bike crashes if they also mention seat belt wearing when reporting auto accidents.

Deep-sectioned Jasper said...

I could never understand why the vegans I knew wore leather jackets and smoked cigarettes.

mikeweb said...

Massively oversized.

Kenny Banya said...

VEEE GAAN

Stupid Name said...

I however am giving up plasticizer in my diet, so my EPO is cleaner and I can win.

Hope my salmon does not come in shrink wrapped containers.

Merica.

mikeweb said...

What? DZ isn't a Suzanne Vega fan??

She'll be so disappointed.

Anonymous said...

I think you forgot "really low front end"

acquiesce808 said...

great post, Mr Snob. reminds me of a George Carlin routine about sex vs. violence where the word "kill" was replaced with "f**k": "Get down off the horse, sheriff. We're fixin' to f**k ya' now!"
toujour le tour!

Anonymous said...

I think the guy knows what he is talking about when giving advice as he is the writer of the column thr "Boz Bros Chronicles" which is featured in 2Wheel Tuner Magazine.

Take that Bicycling Magazine columnist!

Anonymous said...

Steve Tilford knows how to mess with the police.

Cinelli Hat Guy said...

This ain't no hipster meat!

Croll Rider Boston said...

Dear Snobby, please check out this blog two colleagues of mine are "curating". I think you might appreciate their general approach:
http://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/page/?o=1r4vFZo&page_id=192644&v=5i

grog said...

1st pescatarian.
FISH DIET
SALM ONER
RECM BABE

hillbilly said...

awesome one today. and chapeau to ant1

recumbent conspiracy theorist said...

Why is salmon so stinky?

Bigger Dummy said...

Sunday is the 3rd Snobby, not the 2nd.

acquiesce808 said...

WARNING/GUARANTEE: KNOW IT ALL ALERT!

yeah, me again. GENERALLY speaking, when news reports include things like "the driver was not wearing a seat belt," or "a single engine plane crashed" or "the victim was wearing a helmet", that is in the police report, b/c the police consider those kind of things "important to the investigation." in most cases, one of (if not the only) info sources the "media" has to a story is that police report. so, the "media" just regurgitate the words in that report to add "facts" to the story. another example is that within the past couple of years, there has been a push to use the phrase "traffic crash" instead of "traffic accident", b/c the DOT says "crashes are seemingly more preventable," while "accidents" seem as "unpreventable, random events."
(don't even get me started on "the suspect fled on foot with an undetermined amount of cash.")

Erik said...

I wouldn't want you to miss any Tour bicycle cycling racing coverage, especially since you're supposed to be providing some, so I thought that I'd remind you that, although the Tour does start on July 2, that is Saturday not Sunday.

DoNotReact said...

Dear Snob,
Do you wear a helmet when biking?
Yours,
Curious

Dave said...

Wouldn't the koshernees of Bab'e ass depend on how you killed the donkey?

Anonymous said...

Snob, you missed "all-Italian package" in the MCipollini review

PK said...

Dear Snob,
Do you wear a helment when biking?
Yours,
Curious

Anonymous said...

I didn't get a chance to take a picture, but yesterday I saw a guy riding one of those big sprung cruiser saddles, only turned around and pointed backward. Noseless, or butt-nosed?

Nibbles said...

Helmet-bullshit. Its about being an adult.

Wearing a helmet does not prevent accidents, wearing a helmet reduces the RISK OF BEING A RETARD if you get in one. Same thing with seatbelts.

These things are reported as a reminder to us all of our mortality, and our responsibility to those in our lives.

Yes if you get clipped by a bus and were not wearing a helmet, it is not your fault you got clipped by a bus. But it is your fault if you suffer excessive brain trauma that could have been prevented if you were wearing a helmet. And those of us with families need to think beyond ourselves and our smugness when we decide to whether to take risks/precautions with our daily activities. Because if you or I become a spoon-fed vegetable, its those whom we now depend on for the rest of our miserable lives that are really the victims, and I would bet they would say "why weren't you wearing a helmet".

Paul Bowen said...

acquiesce808: That may be true in general but what was especially egregious about the piece from the NYDN that BSNYC referenced was that the information came from the guy's wife (she is directly quoted). So someone from the NYDN, while the guy's in ITU on the cusp of life and death, has been asking the woman "Was he wearing a helmet?" "Did he ever wear helmet?" "Why didn't he wear a helmet?" or similar. There's an obvious ick factor here, there's an implicit attempt to blame the cyclist for his own injuries (he may well have been to blame actually but not because he wasn't wearing a hat) and then there's the sheer ignorance: if they'd done even cursory research they'd know that if a motor vehicle hits a cyclist hard enough to KSI him, he's going to be KSIed - helmet or no helmet.

Nibbles said...

I mean, its not like a surprise that cycling in the city is dangerous.

BikeSnobNYC said...

DoNotReact,

I actually wear a time trial helmet airbrushed like a salmon that says "vegan" on it.

--Wildcat Rock Machine

Jasper with a helmet said...

I can also never understand why when anyone is killed or injured when there is a train involved in this country, it makes the front page, but auto carnage statistics are invisible...

Nibbles said...

@ Paul Bowen

How do you know the wife didn't specifically ask the reporters to press the helmet issue so as to prevent this kind of tragedy from happening to other families?

pengyou said...

Perhaps Contador gave up eating animals b/c of this undercover investigation of pig farm abuses released this week by the group Mercy for Animals http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jBR4FlrWVk4&feature=player_embedded

BTW, there is an actual vegan (sort of) riding the TdF this year: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304314404576414124184873028.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_MIDDLE_Video_Top

Anonymous said...

Oh dear, oh dear, and in march the helmeteers.

Way to rile up the nanny brigade, Wildcat.

http://www.cyclehelmets.org

Terre Haute Karl said...

Did no one else notice the driver had a stash...and only got a ticket for it?? How the hell does that happen? Doesn't possession normally = arrest?

4fuxake said...

VEGA NISM

Rocky Mountain Chuck said...

Ridin' my MCipollini down to get a McRib.

Clen-free

crosspalms said...

I think helmets are like the advice my dentist gave me about flossing: only floss the teeth you want to keep. Don't need your head? Don't put a helmet on it. But like Nibbles said, spare a thought for those who will have to feed you.

Paul Bowen said...

@Nibbles: if it emerges that that was what happened I will buy a helmet just so I can eat it.

"Because if you or I become a spoon-fed vegetable, its those whom we now depend on for the rest of our miserable lives that are really the victims, and I would bet they would say "why weren't you wearing a helmet"."

And I bet you can't point me to a meta-analysis showing that, in impacts severe enough to KSI, cyclists who were wearing helmets were less likely to suffer serious brain trauma than cyclists who were not.

Paul Bowen said...

@crosspalms: with all due respect I'm more inclined to base decisions on empirical evidence rather than what you think.

Phil.Kaplan said...

I once knew a "vegan" who loved cheese pizza.

Anonymous said...

It sucks that some people with AIDS don't tell their partners.

Even though the risks are pretty much common knowledge, I hate condoms and never wear them. If I get AIDS, don't you dare blame me! It is obviously the hookers fault for not telling me she was dirty.

Jim on MV said...

The helmet issue seems pretty relevant since the guy suffered serious head trauma. (And his wife says his not wearing a helmet is "rubbish".) If he broke his leg, it would be irrelevant. If someone wrote an article about an unintended pregnancy, I would want to know if the couple were using birth control.

Marcel Da Chump said...

Wildcat Rock Machine,
That list of words you noticed from the Cipo bike review
read like a Beat poem. Bop that prosody and Howl while you're at it.

Paul Bowen said...

Anon @ 2:41 thanks. From that site:

In cases of high impact, such as most crashes that involve a motor vehicle, the initial forces absorbed by a cycle helmet before breaking are only a small part of the total force and the protection provided by a helmet is likely to be minimal in this context. In cases where serious injury is likely, the impact energy potentials are commonly of a level that would overwhelm even Grand Prix motor racing helmets. Cycle helmets provide best protection in situations involving simple, low-speed falls with no other party involved. They are unlikely to offer adequate protection in life-threatening situations.

BikeSnobNYC said...

Crosspalms,

I better start wearing a helmet on my "pants yabbies!"

(Or at least flossing them...)

--Wildcat Rock Machine

Anonymous said...

Helmets don't prevent brain trauma, BUT tin foil hats do prevent getting kid-napped by mind exploding CIA black helicopter alien ass probers.

Its all a huge government conspiracy to keep the populace dorky and under tight control and totally gay looking.

Anonymous said...

I heard somewhere that Contador had won a gyros. I hope roast lamb doesn't contain clenbuterol.

ant1 said...

leroy - no change to diet, just got me a new belgian soigneur.

Anonymous said...

If you need a fancy, pretentious name for yourself, then I guess you can call yourself a "pescetarian."

Been dabbling in Latin, have we?

Just don't eat the yellow snow.

crosspalms said...

Paul Bowen
"simple, low-speed falls with no other party involved" is an embarrassing but accurate description of pretty much every accident I've had, but I'm still glad I had a helmet for them. I don't expect it to help much if I get clocked by a car, but my empirical evidence is I was glad I was wearing a helmet when I knocked myself down.

Wildcat Rock Machine,
Maybe we can use biofeedback training to make our pants yabbies retract 100% inside our bodies when fear of bicycle-related injury strikes. If those saddle guys are right, we're partway there already.

Fergie said...

Helmets often come into play not in the initial impact, but in the secondary impact. That is to say, not when he got hit by the car, but when he hit the pavement. Considering they were both traveling the same direction on the street, it is likely that the (fairly soft) car hit him at ~20, and his head hit the (really hard) pavement at ~30.

But yeah, in most cases helmet reporting is just lazy and often used to implicate the cyclist. The whole quotes from his wife part of the article raised reporting red flags.

Anyway d.b.a. is a very cool bar, and my thougs are with the guys family right now.

Despressing guy said...

@ Paul Bowen

You know, you are reminding me of 9/11 (because I am a depressing guy). The EPA had plenty of "empirical evidence" that the air around WTC was totally safe, and that everyone should go back to work. I was living down there at the time, and I can tell you, I didn't need no science to know that air was nasty.

Fergie said...

Oh yeah, I've broken two or three helmets over the years mountain biking, so I tend to always wear them when I am on any bike or motorcycle.

Etherhuffer said...

Anyone ever read much on the visibility of bicycle reflectors? Its pretty interesting. Reflectors are really pretty pointless, based on scientific facts of optics/reflections/luminance. Yet, states continue to mandate them. Stupid.

Helments won't save you in a good thumping. But consider opportunity costs of human organs: You can lose your spleen and still have your brain work. But losing your brain and having your spleen work is rather pointless.

My spouse cracked two helments. Both were low speed fallovers. But.....You cannot prove a negative. You cannot say that she would never have been hit by a car on the same ride where she just happened to fall over. No one knows WHICH accident you will suffer at any given time. So either wear your helment or don't. But don't try to say that a person can say when they are useful vs when they are not. Its not possible to predict.

Paul Bowen said...

@Depressing Guy: leaving aside the question of whether your comparison is in any way appropriate or decent in context, let me see if I've got this right: 1. There was no evidence before the first plane hit that 9/11 was going to happen.
2. There is no evidence that helmets work.
3. 9/11 did happen, so, by extension, helmets work.

That's what you're actually fucking saying, right?

@crosspalms: sure and if I was riding an off-road route with which I was unfamiliar I might wear a helmet to prevent cuts and bruises from overhanging branches etc. That's slightly different though to saying "Don't need your head? Don't put a helmet on it." I think you'll agree.

bikesgonewild said...

...for real head protection, i wear 2 condoms on my throbbing helmet when i'm down at the kit-kat klub for a lap dance on rainy days...

...never know where those grind-y parts have been...

...just sayin'...

acquiesce808 said...

Paul Bowen @ June 30, 2011 2:27 PM:

"...ick factor..." what a great way to describe that reporting style.

also, thoughts are with Mr. Deter, his family & friends.

Paul Bowen said...

work = prevent KSI in high impact collisions

Anonymous said...

@bikesgonewild

do you take the bus?

recumbent conspiracy theorist said...

I always parked my bike under a stairwell that was on the end of the building I used to live in. In close proximity to this parking spot was a low hanging steel I-beam. One day you guessed it -turned around and smacked right into said beam. Would've hurt like hell had I not still had my helment on.

Maybe I mentioned that story before. I like to bring it up when the great debate starts up.

Pontius Pilate said...

HAIL CSZR

-P.P.

Anonymous said...

FWIW, d.b.a. is a great bar, and one of the few I've missed since moving out of NYC!

bikesgonewild said...

...@g...

..."I'm sure Dave will have a 'successful' Tour as long as he doesn't get too hung up on the word 'podium'."...

...within the context of the discourse, that, sir, is a brilliantly funny observation...

...cheers...

gsport george said...

So assuming that an 8oz piece of expanded polystyrene offers a worthwhile trade off between increased safety and detriment to cycling pleasure, then how did most cyclists, law enforcement officials, safety campaigners etc arrive at this decision as the optimum level of protection?

If (and its a big un-proven if) 8oz helmnets reduce risk of brain injury 30% (compared to no helmnet) in a accident that occurs on average once every 500k miles of riding and causes x amount of discomfort/annoyance, (figures plucked from the air rather than solid facts) then what about a 50oz motorcycle helmnet that reduces risk of brain injury 90% in these accidents but causes 10x of discomfort?

And if these helmnets are such a boon out on the street why take them off when you get off the bike? People slip and bang their head in the bath all the time yet most modern helmnets have ample ventilation to allow hair washing etc while still safely underneath their protectiveness. And the aerodynamic benefits to you and your sofa are obvious.

Personally I wear one of those bear suits at all times and have no sympathy for anyone involved in any kind of accident who was not similarly attired at the time. In the future I hope the press will make this clear when reporting all accidents.

Anonymous said...

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST!

of course the helmet won't save you if you get run over by a dumpster truck, or hit by a bus moving at 80mph. nobody ever said it would. nobody ever said that wearing a helmet is a panacea. However, arguing that helmets are useless is dumb, because there are certain situations when they WILL work. that pathetic, tiny percentage of energy that it can absorb can mean a difference between becoming a vegetable and recovering from your injuries.
THAT is why people are wearing them: to prevent injuries where they CAN be prevented. That is all. So, don't post this "helmets are useless" bullshit.

KSI, Sep11, second impact, organ donation. WTF?! use your common sense, folks...

yogisurf said...

Re the cycle-car crash, in this case the rider had serious head injuries…so maybe a helmet would have helped. I was quite titillated myself after reading Snobby’s abbreviated review of the Marco bike.

Anonymous said...

i swear if the helmut debates ensue on this blogular page i will never read your comments again... i'm serious.

Anonymous said...

Helmets laws are an invention by the Ghoul-iani administration to hide the truth about 911.

Billy said...

VEGN TATT

Anonymous said...

@Paul Bowen

You're a little teste, eh?

Anonymous said...

Rocky Mountain Chuck, the McRib is a naked attempt By McDonalds to attract more McNegroes into their stores.

Anonymous said...

Hah, stupid vegans.

Tattoo ink is made of clubbed baby seals.

Fran H said...

You think Fred would get his 'ave pace' numbers up if he would get on those aero bars ? You can't fairly judge from just that picture, but it seems like a good place on the training course to get on the bars.

wishiwasmerckx said...

How come everybody but me seems to know what "KSI" means? When I google it, it seems to be a leading manufacturer of agricultural bulk seed conveyor systems.

mikeweb said...

All I know is that when a car t-boned me near the Midtown tunnel about a dozen years back while I had a helment on, when I woke up in the Bellevue emergency room later I was able to understand human speech, make words and recite the alphabet. That's proof enough for me. And I could even play the french horn, which is weird because I couldn't before that.

BTW, if anyone needs a great french horn player for their punk rock band let me know.

Buffalo Bill said...

Lot of posts about meat this week.

I recommend a nice lean bison steak for all your protein requirements. Guaranteed to increase your night wood ratio too.

Back in the day, they were 100% free range, but there ain't no goddamn range left.

Anonymous said...

Jasper - Train wreck outside of Reno last Friday. First lawsuit filed on Wednesday. G-d love those trial lawyers.

Anonymous said...

In the cycling advocacy context, KSI stands for Killed by Stupid Ignorance.

crosspalms said...

Just ran an errand and saw a bike I've never seen before, a Plymouth. "Plymouth Quality Racer" on the headbadge (along with "made in Japan"). Looked to be from the 70s or 80s -- steel, shifters on stem. The shifters made me go to Sheldon: "Stem shifters also present a danger in a collision. Depending on what gear you have selected, stem shifters can be like having a dull knife aimed at your groin!"
Yabbie helmets indeed!!

Quincy Quincette said...

VEGAN POWERS!!!!!!

http://images.wikia.com/scottpilgrim/images/4/42/Vegan.jpg

Nibbles said...

Next time I read an article about a cyclist impaled on his stem shifter, I hope the reporters have the decency to NOT ask if the bike had stem shifters. So tired of the Lame Stream Media blaming the victim.

crosspalms said...

WIWM,
If I poke holes in my panniers and fill them with corn, I too can be a bulk seed conveyor system.

ant1 said...

JESUS FUCKING CHRIST! - your argument makes sense, and i generally agree, but the same could be said for wearing a full face helmet while riding. it would protect you from injuries that a standard roadie helmet won't protect you from. it could be the "difference between becoming a vegetable and recovering from your injuries." yet i assume you don't wear one of those. similarly, your argument could also be made for walking down stairs (or driving a car) rather than cycling. yet i assume you don't wear a helmet when walking down stairs (or driving a car).

the issue isn't black or white, it's a spectrum. people choose the level of protection they feel is right for a given situation. i wear a helmet for 90% of the miles i ride. but when going 2 miles on low traffic side streets, i don't. if something were to happen, you may say i told you so, but i could say that to all the people who suffer head injuries riding in cars without helmets too. doesn't quite make me right.

Etherhuffer said...

Any stats on head injuries in Holland? I asked a Dutchman about helmets and why no one wore them: "Anyone who we see with a helmet is probably too dumb or stupid to ride safely." Having watched Dutch bike/car interactions, I think both parties get along better there.

ant1 said...

Etherhuffer - some would argue that there are a lot of things that can be done (albeit with more difficulty than putting a piece of foam on one's head) to reduce cycling injuries significantly. drivers in holland are a) way better trained, and b) way more aware and understanding of cyclists, making helmet use almost useless.

also, the fact that they're below sea level means the don't fall from as high as we do here.

bikesgonewild said...

...after listening/reading to this discourse, it's no wonder i ride/take the bus (or hell, even walk) to the kit-kat klub...

...raining or not, it's a shelter from this storm...

crosspalms said...

ant1,
You've injected far too much reasonableness into this discussion, I don't feel like pounding my fist anymore.

bgw,
I hope the Kit Kat Klub is below sea level. Safety first.

Matt said...

I wear a helment because it looks exceedingly cool. Also gives me a place to mount my mirror.

Bill Smith said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
Bill Smith said...

Word score: vegan: 19, Zabriskie: 14, meat: 7, bicycle: 3, cycling: 3, hipster: 0, artisanal: 0.

bikesgonewild said...

...crosspalms...any way you look at it, the kit-kat klub is pretty low down...

Cipo said...

kit-kat klub --> kkk for short. turns me on.

ant1 said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ant1 said...

crosspalms - i apologize. i don't know what got into me there. i meant to say that all your opinions suck, mine is so much better and obvious that i can't believe i even have to express it. the only positive that has come out of having to discuss this with you idiots is my reinforced sense of superiority.

Jack said...

I once got knocked off my bike and landed on my head. Passed out momentarily, came too, all OK. (Wearing a helmet) A friend recently had a similar crash (no helmet), landed on his head, came to in the hospital with a piece of his scalp missing and 7 staples holding his head together. I prefer my scenario to his.

crosspalms said...

ant1,
Sounds like you were exposed to bicycles. If you go for a drive, the rage will return.

ant1 said...

crosspalms - i'm about to go spend the next 45 minutes in atlanta traffic, so...

ervgopwr said...

Ant1 nice job on the win today, and your succinct comments on helmet use @5:16

@bgw, just keep the hits comming

And for what it's worth, riding home today, i'll be wearing my helmet, but not my helment.

But if we ride to dinner, likely not on townie bikes.

Lob help me.

leroy said...

Imagine my anger when I learned that my dog had pulled a fast one when he convinced me that when he rode stoker on our tandem he was more aerodynamic wearing his time trial helmet backwards and the stabbing pain in my lower back was due to poor conditioning.

He seemed so believable at the time.

ervgopwr said...

actually 4:51 was the one...anyway, sorry about the Hotlanta traffic.

Anonymous said...

I thought Gary Busey's example should have ended the anti-helmet idiocy once and for all but apparently not. Wear your fucking helmet. It's not a 'magic talisman', but christ, is it that uncomfortable? Are the kids at school going to make fun of you? Jesus.

Charlie Didrickson said...

I wear a vegan helmet...but the strap is made of bacon.

Paul Bowen said...

"I once got knocked off my bike and landed on my head. Passed out momentarily, came too"

Blimey, very Ballard.

"Wear your fucking helmet. It's not a 'magic talisman', but christ, is it that uncomfortable? Are the kids at school going to make fun of you? Jesus."

Jesus, yes.

Anonymous said...

i guess the problem isn't the helmet but the car driver hitting a cyclist

bikesgonewild said...

...speaking of hits, here's a dedication to ant1 for his win today, as he bumps his way through the hotlanta gridlock...

...You're just like crosstown traffic
So hard to get through to you
Crosstown traffic...
I don't need to run over you
Crosstown traffic...
All you do is slow me down
And I got better things on the other side of town
...

...jimi's just sayin'...

Paul Bowen said...

OK I'm wearing my fucking helment, WHO WANTS A PORTION?

Paul Bowen said...

Anon @ 6:18:totally but acceptance of that simple truth ruins the traditional helmet clusterfuck.

Another Canuck said...

Dammit, I was bracing myself for the usual ignorance about veganism/vegetarianism in the comments section. Instead, the age-old helmet flame-war. Imagine my disappointment!

bikesgonewild said...

...re: today's 'rider presentation' for the upcoming 'tour de france'...

..."Most of the riders were cheered by the crowd but Alberto Contador was booed loudly as he stepped on to the stage."...

...personally, i hope that tainted piece of meat gets jeered through every kilometer until the race hits paris...

Paul Bowen said...

Anon@ 4:12: "use your common sense, folks..."

Sorry, I'm still more attracted to the evidence.

yogisurf: "in this case the rider had serious head injuries…so maybe a helmet would have helped"

Nooooo! The more serious the incident, the heavier the impact, the less likely the pathetic styrofoam cage that is a cycle helmet would make any difference.

If you slide out on gravel at low speed a helmet may save you from a couple of grazes; if you get hit by a half ton object moving at 30mph a 2cm layer of styrofoam at the top of the cranium is unlikely to affect your survival chances.

Stranded said...

As the one of the strongest cyclists in my age/social group (fat guys over forty who primarily ride single-speed 29er mountain bikes because they're the only ones with tires fatter than our waistlines, and also because they declare without words to all the cat sixers, knock yourselves out, guys, just save me a slice of pizza with no pepperoni), I can attest that dead animals are in no way an essential part of the cyclist's diet. Go Al!

Paul Bowen said...

@Nibbles: "Next time I read an article about a cyclist impaled on his stem shifter"

Hmm..."Next"? The search terms ["cyclist impaled on stem shifter"] and ["cyclist impaled on his stem shifter"] are unknown to Popular Search Engine which makes me wonder if this has ever happened? You might be waiting some time.

gsport george said...

Maybe I was too subtle?

Everyone chooses their own level of risk, some people consider cycling too risky PERIOD, some feel that the evidence favouring helmets is weak and that the evidence against helmets needs more investigation, like rotational acceleration effects and drivers passing more closely. Either way let people make their own minds up and don't let a helmetless head justify bad driving.
Or a repetitive debate drive you to madness when you could so easily simply choose not to be part of it..

Stranded said...

Let me once again offer my nomination of the non-helmeted riders for a Darwin award. They deserve our adulation for attempting to remove themselves from the gene pool, preferably before reproducing. Wearing a helmet is like wearing a seatbelt or having a functional airbag in your car or not eating burgers someone fished out of the dumpster at McDonald's. Making the right decision on any of these does not confer immortality on anyone. It simply reduces your chances of dying a pointless death. Helmet on equals safer. Helmet off equals not safer (and potential Darwin award winner--good luck, guys!) It's not complicated.

Another Canuck said...

Awe c'mon, guys, when is snob gonna write about the veggie diet again? Okay, I'll warm you up -- surely someone out there has the wrong blood type to not eat meat. Anyone?

Paul Bowen said...

@wishiwasmerckx:
"How come everybody but me seems to know what "KSI" means"

Sorry mate, KSI = killed or seriously injured.

bikesgonewild said...

...i've noticed that no one in the media seems to have asked mr lance armstrong his opinion on favorites for the up coming 'tour de france'...

...is somebody lying low in aspen this july ???...

...hmmm...wonder what's up with that ???...

THE American Bamboo Society said...

THE American Bambbo Sociey urges all bicyclists to wear helmets.

AND we are proud to showcase yet another sustainable-minded partner offering innovative products made out of... you know what's coming... bamboo!!!

Bamboo helmets from roof! http://www.roof.fr/products/product.php?id=5

Le bomb, no?

Also, Craig Calfee will be issuing a press release highlighting that purchasers of his soon-to-be-introduced hemp lugged bamboo recumbent, the Calfee Recumbamboo(TM) (suggested MSRP of $12,099.00) will come with a free roof bamboo helmet.

Go to calfee.com to get on the Recumbamboo waiting list!

Paul Bowen said...

@Stranded: "Helmet on equals safer."

I look forward to seeing your evidence. I'm guessing you do have evidence and you're not just some random idiot who likes saying chest-thumping shit on message boards, right?

I Go Around and Around said...

Holy smokes look at the comments.

Seems like the frickin' issue is not whether you should or should not wear a helmet (that's a choice you have to make on your own) but that the presence or lack of a helmet is used as part of the assignment of blame for the accident if you are hit. If the cyclist wasn't wearing a helmet, well then the public generally views the cyclist as either a.) deserving to get run over or b.) the cause of the accident. The driver can't be blamed because, well, the cyclist wasn't wearing a helmet.

Most of the US feels that merely riding your bike on a city street makes whatever happens to you out there 100% your fault. However, they've been taught this is no longer a politically correct way to view cyclists, so they've latched onto the presence or absence of a helmet as a way of reaching the same ending without offending the people who employ them and have all the money.

I wear a helmet not because I've been hit, which I have but thankfully without serious injury, but because a few years ago a driver swerved away at the last minute and plowed into the curb instead. When he got out, he told me he was glad I was wearing a helmet because he wasn't wearing his glasses and just saw this yellow thing (my helmet=yellow) and thought it was a kid's ball bouncing across the street and there'd likely be a kid chasing after it.

People are stupid mthrfkrs. And they have cars. I just don't want one of them to kill me.

Another Canuck said...

Okay, let's try again. Why do you guys have incisors? To eat meat! Right? Right?

Hungry Panda said...

I will take two, of the bikes and the helmets.

Do you take Yuan

Stupid Name said...

I just noticed that Commie Canuck has been absent for quite a while. Is he dead, in Jail, or just staking out his place for the prince and princess.

bikesgonewild said...

...i'm just glad that this discourse on 'helmets' vs 'no helmets' is going to end this dispute once & for all & make the world a better place...

...now i gotta go & see a man about a dog...leroy's dog, as a matter a' fact...

...he's makin' book on this years tour & i gotta go throw a few ducats/euros/rupies down on the slicker of the schlecks...

Soap Box said...

Well, you've all probably passed out by now, but I thought I would throw some gas on the fire by pointing out that wearing a helmet, which provides little protection in high speed vehicular encounters but does provide a level of proven protection in low speed (usually cyclist initiated) accidents, also lowers everyone's health care costs. I could care less if an individual who isn't wearing a helmet becomes a vegetable, but I have to pay for it, so I do care, and so should you. An individual's choice to wear a helmet does not just impact that individual, but in fact impacts everyone else through higher collective health care costs. (Extra credit please for a fabulous run-on sentence.)

Another Canuck said...

Okay, okay, argue about helmets all you like, I'm giving up. Gotta ride home... I'll be wearing a helmet if anyone cares...

I Go Around and Around said...

I feel badly for using the word "frickin'". And saying that people are stupid well, you know.

I should have been wearing my typing helmet.

I can understand choosing to be a vegan. Go ahead, knock yourself out. But why all the food that is made to look like meat or cheese or eggs or milk but isn't any of those things? Isn't that cheating? You know, like getting a Chanukah bush or something?

Okay, I feel sorry for asking that too. But isn't it?

Anonymous said...

a Gary Busey sighting! a cautionary example for all vegans...

Stranded said...

Paul Bowen said...
@Stranded: "'Helmet on equals safer.'
I look forward to seeing your evidence. I'm guessing you do have evidence and you're not just some random idiot who likes saying chest-thumping shit on message boards, right?"

First, Snob's blog is not a message board, though people use it that way. Second, Paul Bowen, you're the guy who demanded "evidence" from the three-fingered shop teacher in high school when he said electric saws are dangerous, aren't you? Well, since you ask, I do have evidence. The picture of what the crash did to my helmet is on my blog. I'm glad the crash split my helmet, not my head. BTW, the Darwin awards don't come with a cash prize, if that's what you're hoping.

crosspalms said...

Paul Bowen,
Random idiot? I'm a very specific idiot, thanks very much.

ant1, hope you survived your commute. I was feeling a bit smug when I hopped on my bike for my (usually 40-minute) ride home. Ha! It's Taste of Chicago here, which means rerouted traffic, way more cars, angry drivers, clueless pedestrians, intersections clogged with people who watch the bumper ahead of them instead of the signals. Plus it's 80-something degrees, which also brings out the best in people. Especially the ones who've been drinking all afternoon. I'll try not to feel smug in future, it'll just bite me again.

kfg said...

Deep-sectioned Jasper - "I could never understand why the vegans I knew wore leather jackets"

Someone once actually asked me how I reconciled being a vegetarian and wearing a leather jacket. I replied:

"I'm not an idiot, therefore I'm not a vegan. I refuse to eat my fucking jacket, OK?"

Or words to that effect.

". . .the crash split my helmet, not my head"

Splitting is one of the critical failure modes of helmets (the other is being harder than your head. Yes, this actually happens; fatally).

While a split helmet my have prevented what the medicos refer to in their odd technical lingo as a "boo boo," it is de facto evidence that it did little to nothing to actually protect the integrity of your head (although I note it's really the integrity of your brain that you're supposed to be worried about).

A bicycle helmet is intended to mitigate (NOT prevent) brain trauma by subjecting it to lower forces of acceleration than it would be subject to without a helmet. Acceleration, as we all know, is the rate of change of velocity.

i.e.; a time distance problem.

Only a helmet that crushes is operating in the proper space-timeway. If your brain (on salmon or otherwise) did not turn into something in the tapiocaway while wearing a helmet that split, it would not have done so while not wearing a helmet.

The proper way of dealing with a "boo boo" is have "yer momma" (who may be Dave Zabriskie for all I know and it's none of my business if it is) "kiss it and make it better."

Rather than praising your helmet for having big mojo, you really ought to be sending something in the nastygramway to its maker, whom it should meet.

Etherhuffer said...

Still no takers on the Chia Helmet? Its green AND vegan.

kfg said...

P.S. If you want to see a picture of a helmet that actually did something in a valueway; you'll find it on John Allen's website.

Note that you can no longer buy that model of helmet because people objected its dorkway; which just goes to show you how much people really want helmets that offer something in the actual protectionway. They're much more interested in having something in the fashionable fetishway and relying on Lob to intervene and protect them.

ce said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
ce said...

Australian (non hipster) readers are all awake now and we could help push the debate up over the 200 comment mark... except we don't get a say on this one.

Surprisingly though, we are still allowed to choose the colour of our helmets, so perhaps this choice could be the basis for some further discussion.

So just to help kick things off I'll mention that my helmet is MATTE BLACK! Lob forbid.

kfg said...

". . .my helmet is MATTE BLACK!"

In Australia!? Duuuuuude! You might just as well stick your head in the microwave. Someone needs to tell DJO Global to get on this right away and put an end to the madness.

Anonymous said...

How could you forget my you forget my favorite Cippollinism : "An All-Italian Package"

Marcel Da Chump said...

Going for 200 will get ugly.
I wear a helmet; that nice gray ultra lite Specialized which came out in the early nineties. I knew someone whose head got crushed under a truck's wheel. No helmet. Would it have made a difference?

Cipo said...

eating pussy

The Domestic said...

Wow so many comments. I've forgotten what the post was about... Snobs post was about salmon and lettuce recipes wasn't it?! ...hang on, isn't there a bike race starting this Saturday?

Cipo off the old block said...

Happy Canada Day!

Anonymous said...

This comment is purely to help reach the magic 200.
- another Aussie

Domain Registration India said...

This information are like simple to learn more message to this website and also getting the wonderful to follow this message i easily to achieve this ranking position to this field.

Paul Bowen said...

@Stranded: http://www.cyclehelmets.org/1209.html

Sincere apologies for my intemperate language last night, I was drunk.

bikesgonewild said...

...@kfg...you suggest that "...Acceleration, as we all know, is the rate of change of velocity.

i.e.; a time distance problem."
...

...this leads me to believe that wearing a dachshund (of time, of course) on my head would offer better protection than a helmet...

...i shan't belittle your intelligence by pointing out the obvious reasons, but i think we can agree they're all there...

Anonymous Coward said...

Helmet, bla bla, helment, bla bla. My emperical statistical evidence is better than your emperical statistical evidence bla bla. Pushing for 200.

ant1 said...

bgw - good idea. and if you get hungry, you can eat the dog.

oyster lew said...

dang!
new york rentals

Marcel Da Chump said...

This climb is beyond category. Keep pushing it.

crosspalms said...

Puff, pant, wheeze, 179th?

Anonymous said...

Does a helmet protect you? Probably a little in certain situations - but that's not the point.

I always wear one.

here's my reasons:

If you get hit by a car and you aren't wearing a helmet then everyone thinks it's partly your fault and you are going to get less sympathy and maybe $ to take care of your injuries. If I need to be fed by my family I want them to not have to worry about the $ to pay for life. Doesn't matter if the helmet helped or not - but it takes the uncertainty off the table and out of the debate or court case.

Because when the kids (not just mine) are on the bikes I want them wearing helmets. They are more likely to have the falls that helmets help in. I don't want to have the debate about why they need to wear helmets when I don't even if it's a spin around the block to check the repairs I just made on my bike.

It might actually help because I do fall or make contact with cars and objects ocasionally.

It improves my visibility.

It gives me someplace to put my glasses when riding or parked.

I already look like a dork anyway - why not complete the look?

One closer to 200.

crosspalms said...

Interesting that TTTSWRFFTPTD wears a helmet. Since he's a time traveler, you'd think he could just back up a few seconds to get out of any scrape.

Paul Bowen, I'm still smiling over your helmet story the other day. "On my fucking elbow?" Priceless.

gadgiiberibimba said...

There is a well-studied human tendency to try to separate oneself from tragic events by looking for reasons why it couldn't happen to us.

For example, in this case, I instantly noted that I don't make left turns from the right lane, I use a mirror and I wear a helmet.

When people say they are just as safe without a helmet, it threatens me because it would remove one of the facts I use to separate myself from tragic victims.

This explains the heated response of the pro-helmet people like myself to the anti-helmet people. They are threatening not our head protection—since we can wear helmets regardless of what they say—but our psychological protection.

I'd like to understand the motivation of the anti-helmet people in the same way; that is, behavioristically. What is prompting them to dismiss the effectiveness of helmets so vocally? I don't want a justification for their viewpoint, here, but rather, a behavioral account of their motivation for making it over and over in blogs.

I'll offer an hypothesis, but I am open to others. Could it be that they want cyclists to respond collectively to tragic events? That, just as I am threatened by accidents in circumstances that seem similar to my own, they are threatened by my attempt to distance myself from those same accidents, because what they want me to do instead is draw together with the victims and against automobile drivers?

In other words, while I might tell myself, "Because I have a helmet, that terrible thing wouldn't happen to me," an anti-helmet guy is telling himself, "If cyclists banded together, cars couldn't do that to me."

I'd like to hear from honest anti-helmet people on whether or not that sounds plausible. If not, perhaps somebody could offer a better behaviorist model to explain the motivations of vocal anti-helmet advocates.

recumbent conspiracy theorist said...

Helmet Shmelmet

Lets talk about Liz Hatch. That should easily get a few more comments.

@ Paul Bowen 6:13am -That explains alot. Noticed that you were not your usual dapper and jolly self.

Anonymous said...

@Paul Bowen

I like how you linked your own blog as @Anonymous 2:41 and then thanked yourself for doing so at 3:00.

That was classy.

leroy said...

BGW -- what odds is my dog offering on the Schlecks?

I think he may be taking advantage of me.

ant1 said...

gadgiiberibimba - i think a lot of people who seem to be on the other side of the argument from the pro-helmet folks aren't necessarily anti-helmet. they're not telling folks to not wear helmets, they would just rather not be told to wear them. maybe they get tired of getting called stupid and reckless whenever the fact that someone wasn't wearing a helmet is mentioned and therefore defend their position. but i doubt much of them care, consciously or not, whether others wear helmets or not.

Marcel Da Chump said...

Like a vegan
shat for the very first time
like a veeeegan
feels so good inside

when I'm fartin'

and I'm belchin'

like a vegan

ooh, ooh like a vegan

leroy said...

Lox and sturgeon
On the Lower East Side
Lox and stur-ur-ur-ur-urgeon
Can't be beat everytime.

leroy said...

Oh who are we kidding.

We're just doing a lead out so ant1 can sprint for the 200th comment.

Anonymous Coward said...

A helmet Debate is the greatest thing in the world, except for a nice MLT, a mutton lettuce and tomato sandwich, where the mutton is nice and lean.

leroy said...

Allez ant1!

recumbent conspiracy theorist said...

I rode my gas powered scooter (4-stroke not smelly 2-stroke) to work this morning. I wore my helmet. Funny how in my state (Ohio) helmets for motorized cycles are not required but seatbelts in cars are. Never been able to figure that one out.

Anonymous Coward said...

"He's Vegan, he can't talk."
"Oooh look who knows so much. It just so happens that your friend here is only mostly Vegan. There is a big difference between mostly Vegan and all vegan."

leroy said...

194....

Anonymous Coward said...

@Marcel - nice ready-made profile pic there.

ant1 said...

leroy - i've got the legs today. just get me to 250 meters, i'll take care of the rest.

gadgiiberibimba said...

—ant1

Thank you for your suggestions about "the people on the other side of the pro-helmet position." We need to find them a name, as I agree that "anti-helmet" oversells it, and your phrasing is a little wordy to be a moniker.

You are surely right that they object to being called stupid and reckless, but I'm not sure that explains their behavior in blogging so vocally about it. In the case of "stupid," they are only called stupid—rightly or wrongly—when they attempt to justify their choice as a safe one. If they don't like being called this, they could easily decline to justify their choice, as many do. (Bike Snob, for example). This is not the kind of choice that stands in need of justification if they want to keep making it, nor are they likely to convince anyone. In the case of reckless, it isn't clear to me why they couldn't or even don't just accept that some people will find a decision to forego a particular measure of protection as reckless. Why would they mind being viewed as reckless by folks whom they themselves no doubt consider excessively cautious?

What I want to do is explain why this topic incites so much heat. Consider: some people buy warranties for certain products, and other people don't. Each side considers the other foolish, but I've never heard of flame wars over the subject. I want to understand the passion behind the argument, which I think can best be explained behavioristically as two divergent responses to a common cycling fear.

leroy said...

Allez ant1!

Anonymous Coward said...

Wait for it....

ant1 said...

ant200st!

«Oldest ‹Older   1 – 200 of 250   Newer› Newest»