Thursday, April 16, 2009

The Backlash Conspiracy: Divide and Conquer

As many of you undoubtedly heard by now, Elisabeth Hasselbeck, co-host of the daytime talk show "The View," was struck by a cyclist in New York City yesterday. You can read all about it on her Twitter:



Not only was Hasselbeck apparently on the sidewalk when she was hit, but she's also pregnant, which made the incident doubly distressing. Frankly, this news hit me harder than a New York City sidewalk cyclist hits a pregnant daytime TV talk show host. Not only am I a firm believer of cycling in the street, but I'm also a tremendous fan of "The View" and never miss an episode. Scoff if you will, but the chemistry among Hasselbeck, Whoopi Goldberg, Joy Behar, Sherri Shepherd, and Barbara Walters is both heady and addictive--in fact, it's enough to make you lactate in your Rapha jersey.

So naturally, when I heard the news about Hasselbeck, I was highly distraught. "How could this happen?," I demanded of the Universe. "And why did he have to hit the pregnant one? Why couldn't it have least been one of the menopausal ones, like Joy Behar or Barbara Walters?" I knew then that I could not rest until I either brought the scofflaw to justice, or I got tired, whichever came first. Then it hit me. Who is the foremost advocate of sidewalk cycling in New York City?

That's right--it's that "schluffing" guy.

I knew I was on to something, so I high-tailed it over to the Schluffmeister's blog. While he hadn't admitted to the crime, I had already decided that he was the guy who had plowed into Hasselbeck and her unborn child on the sidewalk, and so I scoured the blog for clues. You'll note that the Schluffer's blog is called "The Thoreau You Don't Know," and sure enough I found this: a post about a "Thoreau" Twitter page that I suspect is authored by Schluffleupagus himself. I then visited the "Thoreau" Twitter page, where I read this:



Paydirt.

But while I may have brought one rolling fetus-seeking missile to justice, unfortunately it appears that things are only going to get worse before they get better. A number of people have forwarded me this article from the New York Times (a publication which has written enough cycling-related fluff in the past few weeks to stuff a protective suit for Elisabeth Hasselbeck) which indicates that Dutch city bikes may be the next big thing. This means that next time you get hit while you're standing on the sidewalk, it will probably be by somebody schluffing a bike that weighs like 50 pounds:



Some might argue that these bikes, with their fenders, chain guards, and generator lights, are practical. Furthermore, they might also argue that a bicycle which allows a person to ride comfortably in street clothes is a good thing for cycling and for New York City. On the surface this may appear to be true, but if you dig deeper you realize there's something insidious about the whole thing. As the article does point out, the unwieldiness of an Amsterdam houseboat anchor like this literally outweighs its practicality. It's a lot like those giant bloated fanboat-like bike racks they're suddenly installing downtown. In fact, it's becoming increasingly obvious to me that New York City cycling is now being co-opted by special interests. Just look at the clues:

1) City installs giant bloated fanboat-like bike racks that are way too big for normal bikes;
2) Some opportunists are going to start selling unwieldy Dutch city bikes;
3) The New York Times publishes an article about how Dutch city bikes are the next big thing, and that you don't need "kamikaze messenger-wear" (whatever the hell that means) to ride one.

Clearly some evil Dutch city bike cabal is using its twin lackeys, the New York City Department Of Transportation and the New York Times, to clear the way for them. The DOT will provide the giant racks, and the New York Times will provide the free publicity. However, I for one refuse to have these glorified boneshakers foisted upon me, and I vow to stand against this twisted scheme to turn New York City back into New Amsterdam--that is, unless this twisted scheme also involves opening legal brothels and marijuana "coffee houses" all over the city. In that case, I'll welcome them met plezier.

The other explanation is that the Dutch city bike invasion is yet another example of fashion disguised as practicality. More accurately, it's fashion backlash disguised as practicality. What happens when people start wearing baggier and baggier pants? Tight pants make a sudden comeback. What happens when ratty trucker caps become all the rage? Clean, flat-brim fitted caps supplant them. What happens when microbrews take over the country? There's a renewed interest in PBR. And so forth. So what happens when impractically minimalist bikes become fashionable? Impractically practical bikes suddenly seem a lot more attractive.

Obviously, the fixie backlash has been going on for a long time now, but the sheer bulk and weight of these Dutch city bikes nicely embodies just how much mass this backlash movement has gained. And the whip has yet to crack--after all, there's still a lot to get annoyed about. Just take this recent Craigslist posting:



Brand New 2008 Continuum Aluminum Track bike Frame and fork - $550 (East Village)
Reply to: [deleted]
Date: 2009-04-15, 1:48PM EDT

NOS 2008 Aluminum Continuum track frame with steel trackend inserts designed in NYC
Dont be another asshole with a chromed bianchi pista this year. Get something designed in NYC for New Yorkers
54cmST 55.5cm TT. No dents or dings or anything!
Stripped to bare aluminum and decaled by Jeff (designer). Two chips in decals pictured. It has never been built up, wheels havent even been put on. Brand new Straight blade drilled fork inc. Perfect for your first Fixie
$550,obo
Email me with any questions and we can arrange to meet up. I have a set of wheels so you can check the stand over height if need be. Serious offers only.


Right, don't be "another asshole with a chromed Bianchi Pista this year." Be another asshole on a slightly different frame instead. People who buy Bianchi Pistas to ride around the city are not assholes. At worst, they're people who are attracted to quick and simple bikes but haven't yet realized there are better city bikes out there. However, someone who buys a Bianchi Pista to ride around the city, then buys a slightly more expensive yet equally limited frame to ride around the city, and then has contempt for other people who ride Bianchi Pistas, is most definitely an asshole. Then again, this frame was "designed in NYC for New Yorkers." Yes, clearly when they ordered a bunch of track frames from Taiwan and put their own decals on them like everyone else does they had the unique needs of New York City cyclists in mind in a way Bianchi never could.

And that's what's so annoying about the fixed-gear fad and the fixed-gear backlash. They both seem to subscribe to a notion that there's no middle ground, and they only define themselves in terms of the other. Hate track bikes? Ride a tank! Don't like sluggish bikes? Ride a track bike! Of course, the truth is there are plenty of bikes that are reasonably quick, reasonably light, reasonably cheap, and reasonably practical all at the same time. Here's just one example:


Again, this is just one example. Plenty of other companies also offer bikes on this theme. The problem is that it's more fun to pretend bikes like this don't exist. It's much more special to either do what all the hip people are doing, or to do the exact opposite of what all the hip people are doing. There's nothing special about simultaneously passing the dandies on the Dutch city bikes and getting where you're going just as quickly as the people on track bikes, only with dry pants.

In the meantime, the backlash continues:



The author sure hates those fixies! So what does he have? You guessed it! A Dutch city bike:

A-ha! The quintessential backlash ride! A wiser man than me once said, "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." (That man, of course, was Little Richard.) And a wiser man than him once said, "All You Haters Suck My Balls." (Actually, he stuck it on his rim.)

I guess until that whip cracks it's just going to be one big daisy chain of ball-sucking.

183 comments:

mikeweb said...

Boonen

Anonymous said...

Thor

Anonymous said...

Oh shit, I was Pippy Longstockings

Ronsonic said...

Missed it again

Anonymous said...

Denieedddd!

Hincapie!

nate said...

THE HIGHEST MY COMMENT HAS EVER BEEN!

Bill said...

just plain frickin brilliant. i've been disgusted by that article all day, and by the schluffer for longer than that. and anyone chance to read "boo-ya"

ringcycles said...

meh, another Hammond

Bill said...

who knew that sweating was the fault of road bikes? finally, a miracle machine that makes one not sweat!

mander said...

Top ten, and I read the post! AYHSMB IADC

Ronsonic said...

Elisabeth Hasselbeck? Yeah, I'd hit it.

Jim said...

Elizabeth Hasselback? Yeah, I'd hit that.

Jim said...

Ronsonic - great minds think alike. Holy crap. That's funny.

Anonymous said...

Woot! Woot!

Jim said...

Ronsonic - FWIW, I was also thinking "Missed it again" at 12:39 today, but I was standing in the men's room when *that* happened.

Rick @ Bicycle Fixation said...

As a rider of a fendered fixie, maker of non-spandex, non-messenger bike clothes, and friend of an importer of Flying Pigeons (which make Dutch bikes look svelte), I've decided to take exception to the entire backlash trend--yes, it's a backlash backlash!

I guess fixies are so impractical I can't possibly be riding one through LA's traffic and over LA's hills to the tune of five or six hundred miles a month...would be pretty impossible on a Dutch cruiser!

The again I've ridden as a passenger on a Dutch cruiser, in Holland, piloted by a cross-eyed Stalinist, and I couldn't have done that on a fixie, fendered or not. (Not that cross-eyed Stalinists have anything against fixed-gears, as long as they're cheap and red.)

Hell, much as I love my fixed-wheels, I just tell newbies to buy touring bikes to commute on.

Just ride what you like.

grog said...

I'm lactating just thinking about it.

Anonymous said...

Snobie,

While I prefer nimble and practical bikes as you do, I don't quite understand your annoyance at Dutch city bikes. It is a tank, but it does the intended job, no? For someone that only see bikes as transportation and want to be able to wear his/her work clothes to work/shop in a relatively flat area, it seems to be perfect.

I don't have access to the NYTimes article, but are more upset at the promotion of these bikes as the only alternative to fix gear freestylers?

Best,

Rantwick said...

Schluffleupagus! I can see it in my mind! Eric K, where are you? My crummy photoshop skills just can't do it justice!

Ronsonic said...

Jim, tomorrow you'll wake up ten seconds earlier and just kick my ass.

Snob, good point - it isn't always a choice between ridiculous extremes; track bike or Dutch commuter or lycra vs. tweed. I've been rubbing an IRO Rob Roy in singlespeed trim as my SS 'cross, commuter, fun bike. It is fast and comfortable and sleek and light and practical. Steel frame, crabon fork and 32mm tires and it eats cobbles without telling me about it. Oh, and it's got mustache bars so people think it's special.

bikesgonewild said...

...i used to have "a history"...now instead, i have a "back story"...

...meh...at least, being a cyclist there's some dutch in my 'back story'...

Anonymous said...

If your bike feels like a magic carpet, then ride it without guilt.

BikeSnobNYC said...

Anonymous 12:54pm,

I was just trying to make the point that, in some ways, they're just as impractical and fashion-based as urban track bikes and have just as many drawbacks for commuting.

I'm sure they're great on the streets that they evolved on, but in NYC between lugging the bike up and downs stairs and locking it up on crowded sidewalks and bike racks you might start pining for a Pista!

--BSNYC

ant1 said...

ant1st!

Edwin said...

Second on the IRO Rob Roy... awesome, inexpensive, practical... I ride mine fixed with TWO brakes (I believe brakes make you go faster, and I'm lazy at times), fenders, and drop bars. I've also got a nice geared bike, and I still choose to commute on the Rob Roy in crappy weather.

bikesgonewild said...

...re: WIRED's - 5 Inexplicable Fixie Fashions...

..."If you took a swaying, brainless, gazelle-like catwalk model and turned her into a bike, a fixie is what you’d get."...

...hey...i just wanna ride her/it, not talk to her/it...

Udder said...

I'm afraid I'm terribly unhip. I commute and ride about town on 5 yr. old aluminum hybrid that I bought for $199 with drop bars, brakes, derailleurs, fenders and a rear rack. It's reasonably light (25 lbs.), nimble and bulletproof. Best of all it's not sexy, so it doesn't atrract theives.

crimerider said...

snobby.
i know exactly who took out elisabeth hasselbeck on the sidewalk, Belgium's Greg Van Avermaet, right after he took mcewen and boonen down. i don't know what got his lycra knickers in a bunch but he was out for vengeance. hopefully his wrath has been sated by his recent harm spree and we can all confidently return to our sprints and walking on sidewalks again.

Luck E. Seven said...

Say, is that be-fendered Redline the Ironic Orange Julius bike?

Schluffaluffagus...


A

Anonymous said...

Dutch bikes have been in portland for quite a while now, and fixies haven't left the building yet, so I have been forced to backlash against them both: old british three speeds for non- assholes.

Bill said...

udder, you may not be hip, but i think you are very representative of the commuter, and thus, the nytimes doesn't recognize your existence. there are 3 options for them, 3000 suits barely moving on a 2000 dollar bike, bankers and traders spending oodles on "training" at cadence (ie riding bikes inside), or "the wild bunch" (messengers)

that's it. no more room.

JPB said...

Why are people afraid of sweating? Is perspiration a faux pas? Personally, wearing a suit to work is enough to make me sweat, forget about bike commuting in one!

Anonymous said...

I started working on a nice picture of Jabbas skiff going down in flames with the new bike rack float kinda covering most bits, but I got tired of it and thought I would just tell you about it instead.

Bill said...

what is slick rick doing with his bike once he arrives at said destination? i don't see a lock, and he is eschewing a bag (odd, would have been a perfect product placement spot for a 500 dollar murse)

TMBG said...

"Even old New York was once New Amsterdam"

Bill said...

oops, nevermind, i just hadn't looked at all the photos. now i did, and after i finished vomiting, i noticed the ortlieb. good bag, not what i thought the little dutch boy would have gone with. i was seeing something leather, but then again with all the clownish outfits he looks like an insane person anyway...

Jim said...

>>>Oh, and it's got mustache bars so people think it's special.

Good thing you cleared that up, Ronsonic, because when I saw the mustache bars my first thought was, "Village People."

WheelDancer said...

Those Dutch bikes must be made of wool, er wait no, wool just prevents stinking not sweating.

Interesting that Jim and Ronsonic have some shared neurons.

Oh and sorry Jim but my sweetie saw your 12:51 comment and says you can't come to our house anymore...

joe said...

best one in a while.

libertyonbikes! said...

smart.

just dress like a delivery guy,
you can just mow people down.
like the yellow cab of bicyclists.

as for the tired fixie thing?
look, if brakes (breaks) are for
sissies, why don't you put on a freewheel and step it up a bit,
like the brakeless bmx kids - since that's what you subconciously aspire to be.

DQM even has the oldschool bmx paint jobs on bianchi pistas - and that was sooooo 2006.

Anonymous said...

I was reading that NYT article and thinking that it was the stupidest article I'd ever read and that Snobby needed to comment on it. I am glad to see that great minds think alike.

Anonymous said...

Didn't the 925 get it's name because it weighs 92.5 lbs?

CockPuncher said...

Snobby-
While I understand that photography is strictly prohibited when you and I are riding around NYC after I win Fatty's contest, I'm wondering if contracting with a police sketch artist is permitted? Just want to show up prepared. Thanks...CockPuncher

bikesgonewild said...

...anon 2:09pm sez "I am glad to see that great minds think alike."...

...ya, 2:09...the inverse to that is "or fools seldom differ"...

...i'll let you take outa that what you will...

innerlighter said...

It appears that "giant sucking sound" is no longer coming from Mexico...


meh.

BikeSnobNYC said...

CockPuncher,

No, but you're welcome to bring a charicaturist.

--BSNYC

PS: I am scared of your name.

Anonymous said...

Did anyone see the gloves from the Dutch Bike slideshow in Nytimes today? They say Broo Klyn on the knuckles... hilarious

jolene said...

if yall finds out whar thet hesselback girl is tell me and ill kick that gwat a mullan biker that hit her dont he no the sankitty of life and stuff i dont no if i shud be rideing down to chickfila but we dont have no side walks here no how

you cant hit no blonde pretty lady no more an get away with it

at lees thats what my daddy sed

wishiwasmerckx said...

Snob, your charicaturist doesn't happen to work at a churrascaria, does he? Because that would be just too weird.

dingle said...

So does anyone else feel that the Fixie Fashions article by Mr. Sorrel was written after carefully reading all the back posts by BSNYC? Seriously, this guy cherry-picked the low hanging fruit and essentially copy-pasted it as his own.

Anonymous said...

Hello bikesnob. long time reader. I see you are very against the Pista. I however pride myself in riding the 928 T-cube by Bianchi. It seems to get the job done. Do you hate Bianchi bikes in general or just the pista?
z

Anonymous said...

The powder blue fixie with bars that look like an 11-year old's BMX in the 80's in named "Predator"? Is that to warn pregnant women walking on the sidewalk or is he bragging that Dateline has his AIM screen name on file?

Speaking of which, isn't it funny that the show that used to pretend to be 14-year old girls to trap predators is called "Dateline"?

BikeSnobNYC said...

Anonymous 2:34pm,

I'm not against the Pista at all. I'm only against:

1) People who sell used Pistas for ridiculous amounts of money;

2) The guy selling the Continuum frame who things Pista riders are "assholes."

Though I did just check the Bianchi website (which may be the world's most confusing bicycle manufacturer website) and I see the Pista now sells for $819. Up from $549.99 in 2006!

So I guess Bianchi just decided to do what everyone else was doing on Craigslist. OK, maybe I am against the Pista...

--BSNYC

Anonymous said...

In all seriousness, why do people get these custom frames for their fixed gears they use ride around the city? Is it really just fashion and status, or is there some kind of noticeable strength/weight/performance benefit? Forgive me if this is a dead horse.

Bill said...

819 for a pista?! they sell via nirone's for only a couple hundred more than that...though i guess the langster goes for close to that too. so basically, price of avg starter fixies have almost doubled in 3 yrs.

Anonymous said...

I was just looking at the Wired article that Snobby links to and I have come to a conclusion. "Fixie fashion" is a concept created in order to provide roadies, mountain bikers, and tourers with something that they could all hate equally. Because, really, nothing brings disparate groups together quite like the common ground of hate.

And while I regularly ride either a road, mountain, or touring bike, I should stress that I am not opposed to fixies, per se. I am am, however, opposed to the douchebags who think that a fixie is just another fashion accessory.

BikeSnobNYC said...

Bill,

Yes, though Specialized pretend you're getting something for your extra money by including a crabon fork now.

--RTMS

julian said...

As a member of the Dutch bike cabal, I was wondering when we'd get our BSNYC comeuppance. Leave it to an NYT fashion article with an odd preoccupation with "manliness" to bring the wrath, deservedly so.

That said, I usually pick my big black heavy Dutch bike over other more moderate choices in my garage because I like to carry my kids and my groceries on the bike, and have no patience for bike maintenance. If you want to haul anything besides a sweaty backpack or "messenger cape", there is indeed much practicality to be found in a Dutch bike.

red neckerson said...

now if you really wanted to backlash every backlash there is out there (i gots to stop sweating becos when me and jolene talk about backlash it aint got nothing to do with no new yark times if you knows what im saying) you dumass yankee fellers would just go to walmart and buy a huffy

you can ride it all day, get up and down hills if yor man enuff and you dont haff to carry a lock becos locks cost more than the damm huffy itself

i gots one that had pure shimano guts for $68

takes the leftover money and you can buy a lot of keystone and its smooth

Wade said...

when is the times going to do an article on the Surly revolution? they're everywhere!!! !!Viva the Karate Monkey!! and without willfully meaning to stain the BSNYC aesthetic by veering into bikeportland.org territory, I would recommend that elizabeth hasselback point out once her trantrum is over that aside from delivery men/geriatric collisions, bicycles result in zero pedestrian deaths in NYC while cars kill/maim/disembowel with a far higher frequency.

Anonymous said...

I like my bikes like I like my men -- big, black, heavyset and Dutch.

Bill said...

i see, that's very nice of them....bianchi should step up and include a crabon wrapped polo mallet.

kale said...

I like my bikes like I like my women - Dirty, Taiwanese, and with beefy bottom brackets.

southpole said...

sir, you obviously think the redline is better than the empire state courier?
could you enlighten me why?
(don`t tell me its the fenders...)

Wrench Monkey said...

I like my bikes like I like my women:Beautiful, Italian, high maintenance,and more costly than I can possibly afford w/o mortgaging my future.

bikesgonewild said...

...pistas cost more because of the euro/dollar thingy & bianchi is italian...

...langsters cost more because specialized surmised that "if bianchi hasta get more for their fixed gear bike, well, we'll get more too 'cuz they're trendy & sellin' like hotcakes"...

...just sayin'...

southpole said...

bikesgonewild, i'm not sure pistas are italian and the euro/dollar helps. here in germany they were already >800 euros last year (that was about $2000 at the time) and advertised as the "cult bike from the US"

Test Tickle said...

anon 2:59,

well put. and why must fixters always "backlash" with skateboard helmets, if they even wear a helmet at all. "oh, i don't want to look like a cyclist." another reason why so many are simply fashionistas with no cycling background other than what their stupid-stick smoking friends got them into.

ok, now i feel better.

snob - see you in Durango?

BikeSnobNYC said...

Southpole,

Clearances on the 925 appear to be a bit wider, plus it has rack mounts, which never hurt. But mostly I was just looking for a photo of a bike that was commuterized right out of the box.

--RTMS

Andy Reimer said...

The best thing about the Redline 925 is that the frame is real. Says so right on their site:

http://www.redlinebicycles.com/adultbikes/925.html

Perhaps this is the type of bike that Keo Curry rocks (or rubs).

kale said...

No offense, but test riding the 925 was like test driving a Windstar, (except not as bad)

my valve clamped shut,

whatever - you know what I mean.

They're the requisite commuter bike in some utopian zine somewhere I'm sure. Whereas a Pista would be the commuter bike if nobody had jobs and the world was filled with baristas and fluffy clouds. Wait that's "gentrified" NYC...

BikeSnobNYC said...

Andy,

It is!--BSNYC

bikesgonewild said...

...southpole...pistas are prob'ly taiwanese but bianchi is still italian...

...& i'm out a here...little "gathering of the tribes" coming up...gonna rock some sunshine, dirt, wind & amigos...

...ciao...

Anonymous said...

925, what happened to your mustache bars and full chain guard? You used to be cool.

AnnaZed said...

The thing is that NYT article is actually a big commercial for the Electra Amsterdam line (fake Dutch bikes made in China). A real Dutch bike bought in the US would cost around $3,000 or more.


The Electra versions appeared as a fashion trend in 2006 with 3 "Classic" versions; then grew legs (and a lot of different paint-jobs and itterations) in the Summer of 2007. Those bikes are way cute and cool as sort of "around-a-very-flat-small-town" bikes rather like the cruisers that are Electra's bread and butter. They are very heavy (even the aluminum ones) and extremely finicky. The cute skirt guards are almost impossible to align for example, and as such are, like all Electra products, all about style and not so much about substance.


Today's NYT fashion gush had to be put on hold I guess after the 2008 recall on the Amsterdam:

http://workathomemoms.about.com/od/workathomecareers/ss/wahjobdirectory.htm


..just sayin'...

Andy Reimer said...

I never know quite how to feel when reality steals my irony.

libertyonbikes! said...

kale - you forgot 'cheap'.

but with a minivan you could pick up a dozen,
or so.

Megan Ramey said...

I'll admit, I smirked when I first saw that Elizabeth (I watch the View religiously, too) was hit by a cyclist because I thought for sure she was one of those pedestrians who cross on a Don't Walk signal. But it does make me sad and frustrated to hear that she was hit on the sidewalk. I'm 5 months pregnant and ride my bike through downtown Boston/Cambridge every day. I make every concerted effort to respect both cars and pedestrians because of the respect I demand in return.

I can kind of see your point on the NYtimes article, but I thought the article was brilliant. The more bicyclists that we can get out there on the streets, the better. If fashionable clothing and bikes entices non-bikers (especially girls and women), then so be it. I don't give a shit what you ride or wear, just ride.

I can't imagine what you'd say about our car-free household buying a Bakfiet for a 6th bike. Got to have a way to transport that new baby and groceries around.

Anonymous said...

I like my women like I like red's posts -- short, crude, and without periods.

flaco said...

megan, you seem cool and all and i appreciate your point...but BRILLIANT?!

flaco said...

personally i could give a shit whether anyone wears a helmet, but i'm still reeling from "brilliant" used in conjunction with a Thomas Pink catalog, er, times article....megan, is it also brilliant to encourage those who don't usually bike to do so in Manhattan, presumably rush hour, without helmets?

red neckerson said...

i likes my wimen likes i likes my huffys

cheap heavy and you can pick them up at walmart

Self-appointed expert on the subject said...

ya know..i haven't visited the site in a bit...it still fucking cracks me up.

Amsterdamize said...

"Anonymous 12:54pm,

I was just trying to make the point that, in some ways, they're just as impractical and fashion-based as urban track bikes and have just as many drawbacks for commuting.

I'm sure they're great on the streets that they evolved on, but in NYC between lugging the bike up and downs stairs and locking it up on crowded sidewalks and bike racks you might start pining for a Pista!

--BSNYC"

It's very obvious you don't know jack about these bikes. Stick to what you know or own up to it.

Vrede en Gezondheid.

leroy said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
leroy said...

BSNYC --

Ix-nay on the ccusations-ay of the Schluffmeister.

Word is Rosie O'Donnell is a prime suspect.

[Insert inappropriate lycra joke here]

The last thing you need is a cease and desist letter from the Schluffmeister's attorney. And you know Daniela Levy, whose ads are still on NY1, is just looking for an excuse to go after you.

BikeSnobNYC said...

Amsterdamize,

Do you mean Dutch city bikes or track bikes?

Either way, what do you expect from someone who palps a Scattante?

--RTMS

AnnaZed said...

It's very obvious you don't know jack about these bikes. Stick to what you know or own up to it.It's very obvious that you don't know jack about New York city. Stick to what you know or own up to it.

I know both these bikes and the city very well, and the bottom line is that unless you have a suburban sized garage at home to keep your bike in, an industrial sized elevator at your work to take it up in and a separate room the size of a middle manager's office to keep it in once you get there a fake Chinese Dutch bike will not be a practical commuter bike in New York City.

red neckerson said...

is that amsterdammfool feller a german rucksack

or just a deutschbag

i read somewhere actually i think joe bob tolt me that germans have even small dicks than canadians

Amsterdamize said...

@AnnaZed: actually, I will own up to it. I used to live in NYC in the 90's, hardly the 'good ol' days' for cycling, let alone now. I'm sorry if I offended your tribe.

hillbilly said...

yes, amstupidize, please enlighten us, i mean, saying "it's very obvious" doesn't really make it, well, you know, obvious.

Amsterdamize said...

Hey Red, it's time to get a passport and start using it.

ben said...

Little Richard? Like the musician?

Anonymous said...

AnnaZed
"like all Electra products, all about style and not so much about substance"
I have ridden an Electra cruiser for 8 years now everyday to work in Montana year round and haven't had to replace or repair anything but the chain, tires, and grips. I don't know about the newer ones, but my Electra is short on style, but more than adequate on 'substance'. It's not fast and I would not ride it in NYC, but it's great in the snow and is the perfect year round, low maintenance workhorse commuter for my small flat town.

d. fofonov said...

I am approaching Vladivlostok on my ride across Siberia to arouse the conscientiousness of safe and should be legal dietary supplements to enhance performance and harden erections.

I have read with great amusement about your American practice of teabagging. Infant in mentality but amusing in absense of product.

On Pravda there are many articles about thousands of Americans teabagging yesterday. I am glad to seeing popularity of cycling increasing in America but thought of many fat Americans draping their balls over a top tube of their cycles standing in the middle of large urban areas to be not so easy to be comprehending.

One would not see such a thing in downtown Astana.

Amsterdamize said...

HillbillyHick (I always return the favor),

you're right, it should have read 'It's obvious to me'.

"Some opportunists are going to start selling unwieldy Dutch city bikes" Unwieldy my ass. A dead giveaway of someone unfamiliar with these bikes. Yeah, pretty please, challenge me on that any way you want.

"The other explanation is that the Dutch city bike invasion is yet another example of fashion disguised as practicality. More accurately, it's fashion backlash disguised as practicality."

Just because a fashion editor jumps the shark on these bikes doesn't make them impractical. Hardly disguised when over 100 million peeps in Europe use these types of bikes (and don't say NYC is such an exception to the urban rule).

Listen, I get it. BSNYC does his thing, mixes it up, for editorial fun. I just wish he'd live up to his own standards (as far as I've followed this blog), at least get his facts straight.

AnnaZed said...

...low maintenance workhorse commuter for my small flat town.

Sorry, I exaggerated a bit; basic Electras (even "Classic" Amsterdams) are great bikes for small-flat-towns like college towns near beaches or, I guess, where you live as well. Frankly, I like them and think that they are kind of cool, but for NYC, no way.

Anonymous said...

I rode a $3000 bike, with a powertap no less, everyday to work for months in a dress shirt, slacks, and dress shoes... on tiny clipless pedals. I never got grease anywhere, never a problem. If you can't keep your clothes clean on ANY bike or haul your stuff around sans bikeracks, you're an unresourceful idiot of a cyclist. You need a $1000, 50-pound tank of a bike to get around easily and cleanly in a pancake-flat city? Really?

Scott said...

You don't have to dress up like a fancy pants to ride the dutch bike. Maybe you just want to show up at work/the bar/a party without looking like the bike guy. They are also much easier to dress warmly on. Maybe you should try one, bikesnob.

Anonymous said...

So, wait a moment. The NYT article says that the Dutch city bikes are unsuitable for New York because they are large and ill-suited for tight spaces, etc. Um...has the writer even ever BEEN to Amsterdam (or any other Dutch city--other than Rotterdam)? Dutch towns pretty much are made of tight spaces. Hello? Also, anyone who has ever been to the NL knows that bike theft there is 10,000 times worse than NYC. No, really. These are people who throw bicycles into canals for sport. You know how Dutch people lock their bikes? With gigantic chains, people. Yep. You carry them in your paniers--or wrap them around your handlebars. Even then, you have to always be aware that someone may decide they want some parts off your bike and will help themselves to whatever isn't locked or welded on.

Lord, that was a dumb article.

USA is A OK said...

@ Amsterdamize:

excuse me but...
100 million Europeans can be wrong...third reich anyone?

also, sorry but basic physics says that even if the bike is built with the latest, efficient parts, which it isnt, that it will still take much more energy to ride as it weighs more. But you will look like your riding a bike in a French New Wave film!

and good luck selling them in frisco, louche bag...

Frank Rizzo said...

at Amsterdamize:

please tell all of your friends to move back to Europe they have jacked up the rents too much here in the five boroughs

Amsterdamize said...

@BSNYC: missed that at first.
Dutch bikes. The whole world knows you know your track/road/fixie-gashizzle.
I offer online refresh courses for those who've been in the dark about practical cycling for most of their adult lives. It's really simple, even Red & Hillbilly can join. Oh, and it's free of charge, don't want to become part of some ill-conceived conspiracy theory about commercial ambushes :-p

*not smoking one now*

Anonymous said...

Dutch bikes are like Chinese peasant women -- all are exactly the same.

Amsterdamize said...

@Frank: I will wield my wand. Fucking tulip-eating, cheese sniffing bastards.

chewbaccca said...

hey BSNYC,

what is your take on the workman cycles? they weigh a fucking ton!

Also, what bmx did you ride as a kid? dont tell me that it was Redline...
mine was the Mongoose with the waffle mags, that fucker could kick the dutch bikes ass!

chewbaccca said...

hey BSNYC,

what is your take on the workman cycles? they weigh a fucking ton!

Also, what bmx did you ride as a kid? dont tell me that it was Redline...
mine was the Mongoose with the waffle mags, that fucker could kick the dutch bikes ass!

Amsterdamize said...

@USA is A OK: are you for real?

hillbilly said...

ya had me at 'hick,' hell, sign me up.

Amsterdamize said...

Scratch that, I'm splitting. @BSNYC kudos for putting up with these hyenas, you could easily work in a circus.

I think my mom will be proud I didn't post anonymously.

Good night & good luck, y'all.

hillbilly said...

alls i ever really wanted to know anyway is how these bikes magically make the sweat disappear!!!

amster - i wasn't taking exception with the bike, people should rock/rub/palp/schluff whatever their lil ol hearts desire, though i do think it seems hernia inducing to carry up to a fifth floor walkup, and there are certainly more affordable options, though i guess that's true of the clothes, too, so it's not about affordability.

Amsterdamize said...

@hillbilly: I challenge you to watch one hour of Bicycle TV on my site. That's all.

Basta e pasta.

(PS: 'Love Today - Redux' video is a good one to start with)

USA is A OK said...

@ Amsterdamize:

Nah i am not for real...

just fucking around...

those Dutch bikes do cost a lot though...

hillbilly said...

um, i know we've done already established i'm a hick, but i don't get it, where's the challenge? isn't there a "or"? or some dare that you have to pull off? i mean, basically you're just saying to spend some time on your site - which looks perfectly cool and i probably will, but

crimerider said...

@amster
i promise to look at and possibly enjoy your site if you promise to never say "peeps" or "gashizzle" again.

Anonymous said...

Amsterdamize is quite the smug prick.

crimerider said...

@amsterdamize.
i know you said you were going to bed but one last comment. nice "love today" video. i now have motion sickness. does anyone over there rock/dutchrub/palp/schluff/gashizzle other types of commuter bikes?
that video was incredible. very organic. are there any laws at all where you live?

sincerely,
cheese sniffing tulip eater

AnnaZed said...

I think Godwin's Law is in effect here and the whole argument is now null and void, but I'll continue anyway.

The only problem with big boats of Euro style bikes in NYC (which is relatively flat so the riding itself is just fine) is where do you park and store the damn things, but it's a major problem.

Anonymous said...

bike snob,

you notice that the
OC still posts stuff on youtube where he talks directly to you?
just wondering. i watched a recent one where he rambles for a bit about axles and then WIGS OUT playing air drums to some glam metal song. quite disturbing stuff actually:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrBktkGsnpc&feature=channel_page

JonnyFunk said...

Amen to the middle ground. I feel like today is mine of vindication. I have been rubbing a 925 for a year and a half now. Thanks for the shout out RTMS.

hillier99 said...

121st

Lantern Rouge said...

Lantern Rouge!

rossannarossannadanna said...

hasselbach's problem is he's strictly a drop back passer. no mobility out of the pocket, never gonna make it in the NFL, let alone a NYC sidewalk (not to mention that growing beer belly).

broomie said...

Anon 12:54

Holland is flat, flat, flat.
In some areas a heavy bike with extra dodads are impratical for commuting.
Where I live in Southern California it is all rollers and high speed traffic. As much cool factor a Dutch bike has, it's not the best choice for transportation in my area.

Julia said...

oooo thanks for repping the 925! That's my ride and I have to say it is the most comfortable, fast, and beautiful bike I have owned. Something to be said for simplicity!

Stu said...

Oh man, I'm so happy to see that my 925 has the BikesnobNYC seal of (actual) approval.

Unless it was ironic approval. Then I'm screwed.

Bluenoser said...

Holland is beyond flat. A lot of it is underwater. That's flat.

The bikes are big and heavy in case the dikes burst and they have to use them as boat anchors.

Have fun bgw.

-b

Fred said...

I also like my bikes like I like my women. Laterally stiff and vertically compliant, and with beautiful lug-work.

moe szyslak said...

you know whats i hates? it dem immigants. dems immigants comin here an tellin us what bikes we should ride!

Anonymous said...

there better be a quiz friday or i will be rubbing a frame pump into your front rim.

Andy Pandy said...

I would like to know Thadeuz’s take on all of this mumbo jumbo, given his European sensibilities and heritage.
And BGW watch out as AnnaZed is pinching your………’s earlier on … just sayin

Anonymous said...

bikes is bikes is bikes is bikes is bikes . . . and so forth.
Dudes wearin' girl jeans, though, is a whole different thing.

cyclotourist said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
cyclotourist said...

Link to the DAMV IDEO

Skid Mark PDX said...

If I wanted to spend 900 bucks on a 50 lb. bike with steel rims, I'll look for a 1971 Schwinn Apple Krate. It has suspension and it's a 5-speed, too.

cyclotourist said...

...and you can do wheelies.

Anonymous said...

I have available 400 different shades of black paint with which you can make your Dutch bike exclusively individual. Please to contact me at your soonest conveinence. Laaars Uffenblaacken.

Anonymous said...

Hey, Snob.. http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_wb8bAl1P-N0/SFffzI-ODHI/AAAAAAAACf8/KiBrq2Au7mk/s400/sense+graph.JPG

Looks like that's a dutch city bike on top of your sense-o-meter!!

AnnaZed said...

A 1971 Schwinn Apple Krate would run you more like $1,600.00 (if you can find one)

http://www.rmauctions.com/AuctionResults.cfm?SaleCode=FL09&SortBy=LN&View=Normal&Category=Cars&Currency=USD&tempstartrow=151&currentpage=7&CFID=2621151&CFTOKEN=37829118

The Grape Krate: $3,400.00

If you mind and style runs to the retro you're pretty much stuck with the Chinese copies.

...just sayin'...

AnnaZed said...

You can get a cute Krate bike copy for cheap though ($275.00):

http://www.battleaxecycles.com/products/Bikes/15.html

Junk no doubt, but cute.

Too Cool said...

With luck, the next backlash will send everyone scrambling for Breezers and co-Mooters.
Then the fashion slaves will render them inoperable with 5" wide fenders and racks stolen from Oldsmobile trunks.

Philip Williamson said...

Y'know what I like? I like to buy things from people who walk into a room and pick a fight with every single person there. While saying "@" and "LOLZ" and "GASHIZZLE." That's what I like.
I also like Zack Colman, who is still a douche.

Anonymous said...

Heh, most of the quotes about the fixie backlash that bsnyc ridicules could have been written by himself. the mirror is foggy.

henryinamsterdam said...

Damn. Never realized I was fashionable nor extreme riding my old, black Dutch black here in Amsterdam... like everybody else. I guess we're suddenly the hippest nation on earth. Rad, cool, bitchin', wicked or whatever hip people are saying these days.

I think I'll spend the rest of the day gloating about my fashion cred. Thanks.

Wade Wallace said...

DFL!

Anonymous said...

Docktor Phiill Sez;


Hey BS. You haven't mentioned the word 'Hipster' in at least a week. Are you OK?




Hand Solo

Anonymous said...

I laughed when I saw an electra cruiser at a bike store here in Maastricht (NL).

I guess ppl always want what's different and nobody has one of those here.

It's mostly city bikes that weigh enough to not get bounced around on the kinderkopjes and sturdy to haul groceries, beer, girlfriends, children, etc. without falling apart.

And we have hills here. And lots of old ladies riding up them fully loaded.

Amstel gold Sunday!

Klaus Mohn said...

I'm pained that Marc (the co-hero of European looking-good-while-riding, together with Mikael C-V from copenhagencyclechic) came here to pick a fight. I read both BSNYC and CPH-CC on a daily basis and have zero cognitive dissonance, since my entire life navigates between dorky snark and popular-crowd aspirational consumption in the name of chic.

Baseline is, bike users in European cities are snobbier than y'all, because we feel like we're the real deal; we don't even acknowledge that we have bike culture, we just ride bikes: mama- and papafiets, crappy old ten-speeds, vandalized vélibs, we got them all.

red neckerson said...

i aint trusted the dutch since they bombered pearl harbor

southpole said...

i don't think Amsterdamize is really dutch. because while he became very angry after dutch city bikes were critisized, he stays totally cool ath the fact that many commenters here call him nazi or german, or both. this is even worse for the dutch, because the nazis confiscated all the dutch city bikes during the third reich and never gave them back (at least thats what the dutch claim at every football game).

oh yeah and amsterdam streets are about 20 times narrower than NYC streets, on average.

ant1 said...

There is a huge difference in requirements between a bike used to commute (NYC style) and one used as a sole means of transportation (Amsterdam). One reason people in amsterdam have "crappy" bikes is that most of them spend their entire lives outside, where there is tons of bike parking available, and are used to carry not just a rider, but passengers, groceries, etc... An NYC commuter doesn't do any of that (on average), hence the two vastly different types of bikes. Yes, dutch style bikes are heavy and unwieldy, because they need to be, and commuter bikes aren't unbreakable, because they don't need to be.

Either way, my bike is better than all of those, yours included. Suck it haters.

...just wildly sayin'...

tsalyards said...

I own and ride a Dutch bike daily to work and they are highly practical bikes. While I doubt that any of the spindly legged models in the photos could ride a bike more than six blocks without becoming winded, I'll personally kick your fixie-riding ass in a bike joust any day.

You think you know more than the Dutch or Danes about how to create a thriving bike culture? Fuck you and your asinine road warrior approach to cycling.

ant1 said...

I would argue that the dutch and danes did not create a bike culture, it evolved within their cultures, which are different than our culture. One is not necessarily better than the other, just different.

If I were you, I wouldn't assume you can kick every fixie rider's ass in a bike joust, unless you're the reigning world bike jousting champ, of course.

Jason said...

Thank god for the snob!
Respect.

Anonymous said...

ant1: actually the dutch did create their bike friendly culture systematically and intentionally. It didn't just grow randomly. In 1976 the traffic circulation plan gave explicit priority to bicycle traffic. From that point forward a network of cycle pathways was created. Further initiatives involved making sure there was ample bike parking at trains stations an the like. The point is that a cycle-able nation was legislated for and created by government. It didn't just happen. See http://www.hembrow.eu/cycling/articles.html and look for a pdf entitled "The Dutch Bicycle Master Plan 1999"

Anonymous said...

I don't agree that a Dutch bike is heavy and unwieldy... It is a work-horse and it has to be though for daily use and carrying friends and groceries around. Lots of these bikes are fitted with gears by the way, so hills are no problem. They are very comfortable to ride, you shouldn't judge a Dutch bike unless you have ridden one...

Now for pricing, in the Netherlands such a bike costs 75 to 200 EU (100 to 260 USD) depending on quality and acessories. High prices in the US are simply the result of import costs, low demand and the "latest trend" effect.

To truly see the Dutch and their bikes in action check Amsterdam Bicycles:

http://www.ski-epic.com/amsterdam_bicycles/

and Cycle Friendly Cities:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5rwwxrWHBB8

Anonymous said...

Yaay! The innernet, let's argue!

Anonymous said...

http://www.mentalfloss.com/quiz/quiz.php?q=373&p=1

ant1 said...

anon 11:58 - they may have legislated more bike friendliness into their culture (which I didn't know, thanks for the info), but what I was saying was that it's not independent of other factors such as small, flatish cities, small shops throughout neighborhoods (as opposed to malls and giant grocery stores), lack of urban sprawl (comparitively), post WW2 dependence on bikes due to lack of cars, etc... I'm sure bikes were present pre 1976. They didn't just decide that they wanted to implement this "bike thing" they'd heard about on national geographic.

Anonymous said...

$2000 for one of those $150 dutch bikes? I guess I can stop saying that more money gets you a lighter bike. It's so heavy I'm about to sucked into its gravity field -- not of the bike itself, but it's picture on my computer screen.

SkidMarkPDX said...

Annazed: auction prices do not reflect swap meet, yard sale, estate sale, or classified ad prices. Also there are many bikes that collectors pass up because they are not nice enough or because they have been rechromed and repainted, and the "in" thing now is original unrestored condition.

I'd like to take this opportity to thank all you lazy bastards who collect by googling and ebaying, instead of getting out and networking with other humans IRL. I hate when I'm buying but I love you when I selling.

The last Stingray I bought was a 1969 that I found at the Goodwill Outlet Store for $12, less than a year ago.

BiZZiD said...

I once scored a 3 speed Ross Apollo for $10 off of a crack gentleman about 12 years ago in Bushwick (this was before it was a trendy neighborhood) The bike was complete too and once cleaned up it looked great.. aside from being brown.

drkrides said...

ant1: You are right, geography and population density play a huge role. The size of the country makes a difference too as nation-wide initiatives can be initiated on a smaller scale in smaller countries (obviously).

The dutch approach proves though that governments can make a difference when they are committed to a project.

Bluenoser said...

Snobbie/Red?

The best thing that redneckerson has ever said...

i aint trusted the dutch since they bombered pearl harbor

I work for a Dutchman. You just made my day.

-B

glass. said...

i think that is one of my favorite entries. i love the "all or nothing take on the fixie v. anti-fixie thing. i always thought that fixing up a "fixie" was all about finding a new and different thing to do with yr bike. but now it seems like you just absolutely have to be like everybody else. for me, i'll city bike it up dutch style if they have "hitter boxes" built in to them instead of PBR beer cages.

s.

mistercharlie said...

Hey! I wrote the Wired article over at the Gadget Lab. I'm not a hater, so I shouldn't be sucking any balls. In fact, I picked up a cheap-o fixed gear on Friday and it's amazing fun. Way lighter and faster than my Dutch bike, which I will be keeping.

It's not as comfortable as the DB but I guess I can have 2 bikes, right?

eda said...

買煙火,製造浪漫煙火小舖,101煙火,煙火小舖,煙火,仙女棒,沖天炮,勝利之花,甩炮,升空煙火,情趣用品,情趣,衣蝶情趣精品百貨,情趣用品衣蝶情趣,自慰套,飛機杯,充氣娃娃,AV女優,AV,電動按摩棒,按摩棒,G點,調情棒,後庭拉珠棒,跳蛋,變頻跳蛋,有線跳蛋,無線跳蛋,潤滑液,男女穿戴用品,穿戴用品,情趣內衣,性感內衣,情趣跳蛋,角色扮演,情趣角色扮演,丁字褲,情趣內褲,性感內褲,性感吊帶襪,網襪,性感網襪,T字褲,煙火批發,情趣禮品,情趣用品

socre said...

I like biking too.

Dark3 said...

Free Games at ROBLOX. Check out what I have been building lately!

Anonymous said...

Anonymous said...

Now for pricing, in the Netherlands such a bike costs 75 to 200 EU (100 to 260 USD) depending on quality and acessories. High prices in the US are simply the result of import costs, low demand and the "latest trend" effect.
Give me a break. Where can you buy a new dutch bike in Holland for 75 Euro? A second hand beat up one, sure.

A good quality Dutch Bike by Workcycles, Gazelle, etc is on average 500 -1000 Euros ($650-$1250 USD). That is what the Dutch pay.

They are actually excellent value for money bikes in my opinion.

Paper|Vampire said...

Bs.

You can get a Gazelle for 350 Euros,
or a cheap-ass Chinese model for 150 Euros.
Anyway, bikes are for transport. Period. The Dutch bike is what New Balance sneakers are for New Yorkers.

Just get a busted one for riding, and sure as hell don't pay $1000+ for it. Don't haul it up the stairs, just leave it outside with a shit-heavy chain-lock fixed to a pole or a bench. If everybody does that, in no-time, you'll have facilities for parking bikes.

I don't get the hipster remarks. Just because one NYT article makes it a fashion-item, doesn't mean you have to.

Maybe you shouldn't want to look like a douchebag sporting your messenger bag and your fixie, making transportation a lifestyle.

paul said...

Paper/Vampire,

I don't think you will find my comments Bs.

I said AVERAGE price is 500-1000 for these bikes. There is a difference between cheapest and average.

Anyway please show me which bike is 350 Euro on the Gazelle website (not including kids bikes).

Even the single speed Basic is 449.

The other problem is that there aren't too many second hand Dutch bikes around so I guess many people will be buying new for now....

Anonymous said...

Am I alone in not giving a hoot what other people ride?

Paul said...

Can I just clarify something please that bugs me about all the talk about Dutch bikes on blogs the world over? Dutch made city bikes are everything from heavy steel single speeds to ultra lightweight full carbon 27 speed models. Labeling Dutch bikes as all single speed tanks is like saying all japanese cars are toyota Landcruisers. Do some research people....look what is happening in the Dutch bicycle market.... it is THE trend setting market in the bicycle industry right now for city bikes. No other country has the knowledge or choice of city bike product the Dutch have. Saying that Dutch bikes are unsuitable for hills is pure nonsense. Guess which city bikes are some of the most sold in hilly Germany? Do you think New York has bigger hills than Germany? If you live in a hilly area you can buy city bikes with lots of gears that go up hills as easy as any other bike with 24 gears!
Cheers,
Paul.

mduffy said...

I have been riding a track bike for over 10 years now in Philadelphia. To me it is like a manual car I have control,speed, and a more fun driving it. Just like I will never go back to owning a automatic car I will never ride anything but a fixie. Things always go in and out of trends back in 2000 in my bike messenger days I was one out of three people who rode a fixie in Philadelphia...and I am a female...so naturally people thought I was crazy. I fell in love with riding them and LOVE the fact that I can fly past people on almost any kind of bike. You probably are really young and that is why you are overly concerned about what people choose to ride but in the long run of things, the world is pretty fucking shitty right now. So if people enjoy what they ride let it be what it is.

Anonymous said...

TAKE YOUR BIKE AND RUN INTO A DITCH BIKERS SUCK!!!!!!!!!!

cyclotourist said...

Hey Anon, congratulations: you just invented cyclocross!

And yeah, bikers suck; ever since the Wild Bunch came out, it's just recycled corporate rebellion

dinoibo said...

Sesli sohbet Sesli chat
Seslisohbet Seslichat
Sesli sohbet siteleri Sesli chat siteleri
Sesli Chat
Sohbet Sesli siteler
Sohbet siteleri Chat siteleri
Sohbet merkezi chat merkezi
Sesli merkezi sesli Sohbet merkezi
Sesli chat merkezi Sohbetmerkezi
Sesli Sohbet Sesli Chat
SesliSohbet Sesli chat siteleri
Sesli sohbet siteleri SesliChat
Sesli Sesli siteler
Seslimuhabbet sesli muhabbet
sesli sohbet sesli chat siteleri
sesli sohbet siteleri sesli chat
seslisohbet seslichat
seslikent sesli kent
sesli sohbet sesli sohbet siteleri
sesli chat sesli chat siteleri
seslisohbet seslichat

Anonymous said...

You wrote a very interesting article. And I agree with you. hair loss Read a useful article about tramadol tramadol

ekle paylas said...

nice blog Thanks for sharing. voicesohbet was really very nice.
sesli chat siteleri sesli sohbet
sesli sohbet siteleri sesli chat
seslichat seslisohbet
sesli siteleri chat siteleri
sohbet siteleri sesli siteler
voice sohbet sesli sohbet siteleri
sesli sohbet seslisohbet
sohbet siteleri sesli chat siteleri
seslichat sesli chat
herkesburda herkes burda
sohbetmerkezi sohbetmerkezi

Anonymous said...

I am very happy to read this article..thanks for giving us this useful information. anti viral Read a useful article about tramadol tramadol

free videos said...

X movies watch free porn indian porn movies. and you sex tv porn movie watch now ! teen videos for you xoporntube videos.

Amanda Caldwell Dodds said...

I know you hate all things Canadian but there was a good cartoon about Lance Armstrong in the Montreal Gazette

http://www.montrealgazette.com/opinion/editorial-cartoons/index.html