Monday, June 15, 2009

A Shot in the Dark: The Art of Appropriating Blame

If you've been following the Great Shattered Mavic R-Sys Debacle, you are no doubt aware that Mavic's team of forensic experts have responded to Ben Delaney's original article in which he describes how his front Mavic R-Sys wheel blew apart for no discernible reason. While they are still not able to explain the failure, they have predictably concluded that it was not their fault, due in part to the following:

The Mavic Engineering Team saw in Boulder:

- That the R-SYS front wheel had ovalized and the spokes had broken
- That the tire had separated from the wheel
- That the valve of the tire tube had been sheared off
- That the bike frame had broken on the main tube
Advertisement

The tire, the tube and the frame were not Mavic products.

This is damning evidence indeed. Certainly for best results, Delaney should have used the R-Sys in conjunction with a Mavic tire, inner tube, and frame. Sure, Mavic don't actually make tires, inner tubes, or frames, but that doesn't mean Delaney's component choice was any less irresponsible.

So, given that Delaney apparently had the temerity to "rock" a highly durable and well-engineered pair of R-Sys wheels along with a whole lot of other random crap for which Mavic can certainly not be held accountable, it's no surprise that Mavic is pointing their long yellow finger at the other crap:

Fact: The valve stem is missing. One can see on the picture attached the location of the hole in the rim where the valve stem to the tire should be.

A-ha! So the tube or the tire failed before the wheel. Furthermore:

Fact: The frame is made of carbon. The horizontal tube under the chest of the cyclist is broken. The fork (also made of carbon) is not broken and shows no evidence of scratches or impact.

A-ha again! (Or, if you prefer, "A-ha-ha!") So the frame may have broken first! And of course Delaney wasn't "running" an imaginary Mavic frame as he should have; instead, he was riding a Specialized. Mavic aren't saying it in so many words, but I think we can all read the writing beneath the rim strip here:

While on one hand I'm disgusted by Mavic's refusal to admit any sort of responsibility, on the other hand it's nothing less than fascinating to watch a company issue a statement that's basically the equivalent of blaming the dog for your own flatulence. Not only that, but they're doing it in a comically overblown fashion by conducting a parody of an investigation in which the conclusion is already a fait accompli and by beginning every statement with the word "fact." Actually, they're following a template already established by another famous French investigator, and the whole Mavic debacle is actually strikingly similar to the plot of the 1964 film "A Shot in the Dark:"

Inspector Jacques Clouseau: Facts, Hercule, facts! Nothing matters but the facts. Without them the science of criminal investigation is nothing more than a guessing game. So consider the facts in the case at hand. Fact: Maria Gambrelli was found standing over the dead man with a smoking gun in her hand. Fact: She had a big smile on her face. Fact: No other fingerprints were found on the gun. So what do we conclude, Hercule?

Hercule LaJoy: Why, that Maria Gambrelli committed the murder.


Inspector Jacques Clouseau: No, you fool! You are forgetting the most important fact: motive.


Hercule LaJoy: He beat her.


Inspector Jacques Clouseau: He was Spanish!


Hercule LaJoy: He tore her dress off.


Inspector Jacques Clouseau: Oh, don't be ridiculous. Would you kill someone who tore your dress off?


Of course, in this case the Mavic Engineering Team is Clouseau, the R-Sys is the beautiful Maria Gambrelli, and that crappy Specialized frame is the hotheaded Spaniard. Still, in fairness to Mavic, there is one crucial difference between them and Clouseau, and that difference is that despite his bumbling nature and flawed logic, in the end Clouseau was actually right about Maria Gambrelli's innocence. But that's why "A Shot in the Dark" is a comedy, and the Mavic debacle is a tragedy.

Speaking of tragi-comic investigations, with the Tour de France coming up the issue of doping in professional cycling is once again flaring up like a cold sore before a big date. And these days one of the biggest manifestations of HSV-1 on the lip that is the pro peloton is three-time Tour de France winner and former eponymous bike brand licensor Greg LeMond, who recently gave a speech at the "Play the Game" conference in Coventry, UK which can perhaps best be described as "epic":

At over 50 minutes, LeMond falls just short of breaking the hour record for self-embarrassment, but you've got to give him credit for making a valiant attempt. With all due respect to the scope of LeMond's accomplishments and his obvious concern for the integrity of the sport, it's very difficult to look past the string of non-sequitors and illogical conclusions he presents. Highlights include:

On his thorough preparation for the conference: "I'm still kinda making sense of notes I've been trying to throw together."

On the secret of his success: "I was very fortunate to be very blessed genetically."

On his current condition: "I'm still fat as hell."

On his current condition: "On power output wise in 4 months I got to where I was in my last year of professional racing."

On the state of the Tour: "In today's world most people...it's almost embarrassing to be called a Tour de France rider or a Tour de France winner because it's assumed that you cannot win the Tour de France clean and I just pose the question back, 'If everybody is clean and nobody's taking drugs and there's a three week race that's called the Tour de France and you start at the start line three weeks later there's going to be a winner and most likely there'll be finishers too, and so can you do it clean? Absolutely. Will it be slower? Probably. Will it be more dramatic? Absolutely.'"

On climbing then: "I got really good at chugging water or beer or whatever you want to call it. "

On climbing now: "I see people talking on the phone now riding a climb at the front of the Tour de France."

On cycling: "I don't recognize the sport anymore."

On his own speech: "Where was I?"

On a tangent: "I helped create the very first hardshell helmet...oh God, I even forgot where I was going with this. How the hell did I get on to this? (Laughs) Oh, God, I'm just having a brainfart."

On being confused: "It's got to be lead poisoning, that's what it is. Can somebody help me where I was? Oh, Dr. Ferrari!"

On summing things up nicely: "This is embarrassing."

On 80s cycling fashion: "I raced with a plastic cup on my head for aerodynamics."

On his 1989 Tour de France win over Laurent Fignon: "I miraculously, I would say miraculously I did come back...I won it, I won it by 8 seconds"

Lance Armstrong to Greg LeMond on the 1989 Tour: "Your win in 1989 is like mine, it was a miracle."

Greg LeMond to Lance Armstrong on the 1989 Tour: "Hold on, mine was not a miracle."

In addition to rummaging around in his head for things to talk about, he also spends some time rummaging around beneath the podium:


Basically, it's like watching a hybrid of Steve Carell in "The Office" and Chevy Chase in "Vacation:"


Again, it's easy to admire Greg LeMond as a legendary athlete, and he's more than deserving of that admiration. However, it's a bit harder to admire him as a moral crusader when he steps off a plane with some hastily-prepared notes and alludes to all the facts he could cite regarding other people's guilt if only he wasn't involved in litigation. Certainly drugs exist in cycling now just as they did before--and during--LeMond's heyday. However, LeMond's argument simply seems to be that the practice of doping is worse now than it was in his time, despite the fact that there was much less testing then. Even the rider he beat in 1989 freely admits to his own drug use:

So does that mean because Laurent Fignon cheated that Greg LeMond cheated too? No. But when Greg LeMond retired, he attributed his diminished results to mitochondrial myopathy. Now, it's because everyone else was cheating. As a cycling fan, I certainly wouldn't accuse LeMond of cheating, nor would I argue against the obvious fact that he competed against other cyclists who did or that riders continue to cheat today. Still, I can't help but feeling like LeMond is taking the Mavic approach by claiming there's something wrong with everything except him. Yes, like Delaney's R-Sys sometimes you are surrounded by crap--but that doesn't mean you can't fail too.

177 comments:

Anonymous said...

huh

Anonymous said...

2nd

Anonymous said...

donkey

rezado said...

golden syrup.

word to your mutha.

Eva said...

word

ant1 said...

ant1st!

Never Knows Best said...

Pass!

streepo said...

Yes!

Justin said...

Pass!

Luck E. Seven said...

Wasn't me...


A

Mad Jack McMad said...

Top 20!

Boom Shanka.

kale said...

Cadel13th

2nd overall

Rantwick said...

I am a dog person, precisely because it is hard to blame my wicked flatulence on a cat.

rightsaid kev said...

It's not a cold sore! It's a pimple!

Anonymous said...

were those direct Lemond quotes?

I could hardly read that shit, and with all the mispelled words it's hard to decipher who flubbed what...

I blame it on the hunting accident!

hillbilly said...

it's all my fault

bk jimmy said...

I rub-ride Specialized road shoes, but as soon as I get home they're going in the trash. To think, one botched clip-in could mean... catastrophic endo!

streepo said...

Pull my finger.

Anonymous said...

1st clean commentor

Anonymous said...

Woot! Woot!

dannyray said...

hey hey!!! Now I have to go back and read it!

Anonymous said...

I rock, rub, and hell, even tea-bag my Mavic wheels, but they are cxp-30s and my frame, tube, and tire haven't spontaneously conspired and combusted to destroy them..... yet.

bikesgonewild said...

...no jokes, no slanders & no zingers & w/ all due respect but honestly, "how the mighty have fallen"...

Anonymous said...

Fuck yeah. Well put mate. I love this blog. I hate that word though - blog. Its blog, its blog, its big its heavy its...

Slappy said...

How hard it is, maybe Gary Fisher should reach out to Greg now that his name is on the Trek Pontiac line of road bikes. Surely that would make someone feel better. Not Lance though. Aah well, doping is fun for the whole family especially after you're done and it comes back to haunt you. Sort of like hearing about the W. German athletes after their careers ended, their bodies responded to all the drugs by turning into huge awful messes, which is pretty much the price to be paid by all those who PUMP it UP

LastBoyScout said...

Everyone needs to remember that when a catastrophic failure occurs, you must NOT shield the failing product with your body. Unintentionally and unwillingly sacrificing a shoulder so as to protect components from scruffs, scrapes or any other damage will only reduce the manufacturer's culpability for their attempt on your life (in your legal action for defective design). He needed a protective crash toddler.

Anonymous said...

. . . and BSNYC pulls an R_SYS and totally fails on that post.

Kohl is admitting to doping in the pattern that Armstrong probably did in all his tours and you go after Lemond?

Weird. Of course, you do have that mellow johnny's t-shirt.

ant1 said...

anon 2:36 - Snob is lance. Hope that explains things for you.

Anonymous said...

anon 236 is greg lemond!

on wrong blog said...

USA USA USA!

Anonymous said...

PHARMSTRONG.

Greg is a jerk. Lance is a stallion!

Haven Parchinski

Anonymous said...

Love it!

bikesgonewild said...

...ahhh, slappy...i believe you are actually referring to the ex-east german athletes...

...& gary fisher is a friend of both greg lemond & lance armstrong...

...fact...trust me, i know...

db said...

Wonderful Clouseau analogy. So who's Cato? Delaney?

BikeSnobNYC said...

Anonymous 2:36pm,

When someone begins a talk with "I'm still kinda making sense of notes I've been trying to throw together" it's sort of hard for me to take seriously anything they have to say after that--which is to say nothing of his use of the word "brainfart."

I do not own a Mellow Johnny's t-shirt.

--BSNYC

Anonymous said...

clearly, bsnyc is woody allen. let's start talking about how we liked his earlier, funny work.

Anonymous said...

I love my OpenPros, but
Mavic's Response is disappointing.

They are completely spinning the facts without mentioning one critical FACT:

By the time the hub/fork/quickrelease hit the ground most of the weight (a.k.a. "the rider") had been ejected.

NOTHING they have said acknowledges that shattered spokes explain ALL of the damage.

They are just playing the laywer game and hoping for reasonable doubt.

Bob Loblaw said...

Thank you for noting Lemond's "virtue untested." If he wants to talk about doping, he should talk about what he actually knows,--doping when he was riding. Because we know for a fact it was being done,--they just weren't tested for it.

But instead he insists on "naming names" of riders who are doping now. It is literally impossible for him to have any personal knowledge of that.

jolene said...

all them french lemonades and shit whats the matter today

i gets up on sunday as usual with a zima in one hand an you know whos you know what in the other and get out to go ona bike ride an gess what i saws a bikecycle built for tew on the crick trail and guess whews drivin it the libarian and ricky i hided my arn horse behina that old stump over and they was so funny i almos threw up or mebbe it was the roofies

Anonymous said...

I hope Greg Lemond didnt get paid for his appearance and that horrible presentation.

ant1 said...

Snob - great lawyer speak. you may not own a mellow johnny's t-shirt, but we know you own a mellow johnny's bike shop. you can't fool us.

SNOB STRG

Astroluc said...

FORTY-ONE!!

?

Anonymous said...

I have a nice pair of bulletproof Mavic Ksyrium hoops for sale. I cannot guarantee their capability with your exploding crabon frames, cheap tires and tubes.

Kurt Vonnegut is King said...

Call me a corporate sympathizer if you will, but I think you've taken a little too much license with Mavic's investigation of the incident. When you read the whole article, you get a more even-handed assessment of what might have happened. Their summary doesn't claim an absence of responsibility, but it does lean that way. And that's exactly what you do when you have a lot of faith in your (re)design.

-------->
Summary

Determining the cause of crash and the order in which things failed during the crash is under investigation at the moment.

Mavic takes seriously the rider’s accident in this matter, and the investigation into the causes of this wheel, tire, inner tube or frame failure continues. There are several key facts which may indicate that the cause of the accident was not the failure of the Mavic wheel
-------->

Don't get me wrong, I still think your skewering is hilarious. But when a wheel builder sends a team of engineers to investigate an incident, and then posts their findings publicly for you to read, I think you owe them a fair shake. They themselves admit the case isn't closed yet, but they are keeping you in the loop.

hillbilly said...

anon 236, are you sure you aren't remembering the shot of lance sporting a bsnyc t shirt? that's a whole different thing.

ps= i do own a mellow johnnys cap.

CommieCanuck said...

From the Mavic engineer's report, we can conclude." when zee wheel breaks, zee bike , she gets very phucked up".

They missed the part about the rider's tooth implanted in the rim/tire bead interface, and the soiled chamois as the result of fear-induced hysterical bowel release (FIHBR).

We all know what the real issue here is: you can't really expect ultra expensive bike parts to perform like reasonably priced parts. One cannot expect to pay the big bucks without have the "cutting-edge failure" story.

"My $1700 Giant Defy broke a spoke when I was just riding along."

Meh.


"My $17,000 Super Retard Serrota custom carbon electronicco 12 -speed completely spontaneously combusted while riding to the fruit market. This likely has to do with conflicting energy travel from the lithium ion battery source and the carbon nanotubes within the ultra mega modulus carbon (handwoven from the ignited pubic hairs of albino virgin boys). You have to expect this kinda thing from an insider industry early adopter, and not you Johnny-come-later assholes. All I need is about $6,500 in turbo ceramic ginseng upgrades, which isn't surprising because these bikes are so cutting edge, they really shouldn't be ridden."

**GOLD**.

We'll see who gets laid with what story.

Sweet Sassy molassy.

bikesgonewild said...

...hopefully lance won't put on weight like greg when he retires or he'll have to change the name of the shop to marshmallow johnny's...

...just sayin'...

Wes said...

Kurt

They are keeping us in the "hoop".

And BSNYC is Banksy - goes on slaycation and all of a sudden a big exhibition appears at the gallery in Bristol. Coincidence? I think not.

ant1 said...

Commie - so when people tell me I should get more FIBHR in my diet, they mean eat shit and die rather then eat healthy and live a long life?

CommieCanuck said...

KViK said..

Don't get me wrong, I still think your skewering is hilarious. But when a wheel builder sends a team of engineers to investigate an incident, and then posts their findings publicly for you to read, I think you owe them a fair shake. They themselves admit the case isn't closed yet, but they are keeping you in the loop.

Are you that naive? That "Loop" is no way going to go back to Mavic, it's going to go to some other bizarre vague aspect of what the "investigation" found out. I'm betting even money it all comes down to a parts spec conflict between the bar tape and the water bottle.

It's never Zipp's fault, either.

BikeSnobNYC said...

Kurt Vonnegut is King,

You make a good point, and I'm definitely being hard on Mavic.

Fortunately it's safer to be hard on the company than on the R-Sys. Ba-dum-dum.

They do deserve credit for following up, though I'd still argue that a wheel should be able to survive a tire blowout or even a frame failure with at least a few spokes intact. (Insert obligatory 1995 Abraham Olano World Championship victory story here.)

--BSNYC

kale said...

Roadies need to take a lesson from the 700cmx/FGFS/Fixter bloc and record every second of riding to capture component failure in action, otherwise who's to say where the burden lies.

But, I would assume since watching Dauphiné Libéré on VS is somewhat dry to begin with, CAT races would be the equivalent of lifting of the front wheel in the suburb.

NatMc said...

I think mavic is missing a sure-fire liability dodge here: blame the crash on the fact that the wheels had carbon spokes. no one could ever imagine a wheel with stainless-steel spokes exploding in this manner. so it's not mavic's fault that the wheel failed. it's carbon's fault. just like it is with global warming.

hillbilly said...

Product fails in similar fashion as previous product had failed frequently enough to cause recall of said product, potentially causing great physical harm to rider and company refuses to accept blame.

a few blogposts making fun of them is not being too hard on them, I think they will live

CommieCanuck said...

Lemond once guest-edited an issue of Procycling.

The issue was inter-dispersed with far too much information about this guy's personal life, his kid's personal life, his wife's personal life, real estate costs in Minnesota, his dog's chronic diarrhea, etc...you get the idea.

Every, "a day in the life of Greg", article was punctuated with names of various fast-food restaurants Greg frequents.

Oh, and according to Greg, the whole mitochondrial myopathy thing never really happened. My guess, the hunting 'accident' was just Greggo's buddies fed up with his complaining.

bikesgonewild said...

..."My guess, the hunting 'accident' was just Greggo's buddies fed up with his complaining."...

...maybe i should feel guilty laughing at that remark but i'm definitely laughing...

CommieCanuck said...

NatMc...yeah, fuck carbon. What do we need it for? Pencils? pfft. no one uses pencils anymore.

I'm sure Mavic has a carbon capture proposal into the NSF to build 1.5 billion R-sys wheels and distribute them in poorest India, thus wiping out over-population and capturing carbon in one genius swoop of the hoop.

grog said...

After all, Greg is a racer, not a public speaker; and, yes, we can blame the cat for the odor.
Gotta love that Peter Sellers.

William Shatner's Girdle said...

grog said...

After all, Greg is a racer, not a public speaker.


Sure, he's an idiot savant,he did one thing really well. Also known as McCoy's disease (Dammit Jim, I'm a doctor , not a ________).

marcj said...

I still have sympathy for Lemond. He's trying to do the right thing but working against a lot of parties that are at cross-interest with him, have deeper pockets, and much more to lose.

And indeed, his oratorial style sucks. He's probably getting paid to be there and should have put together something more substantial than a Grandpa Simpson act, where he tells tales of how he once tied an onion to his belt and went to Shelbyville.

But at the same time, I am not hearing anything he's saying as being patently false.

CommieCanuck said...

Onion? wasn't it called a "Polish turnip" back then?

Luck E. Seven said...

Sounds like another personal best for LeMond.

Thanks for the vid link Kale. Priceless stoopid.


A

Mad Jack McMad said...

Well the early scripts for CSI: Annecy look pretty good, but I'm still not convinced that David Caruso's French accent will be any good.

Anonymous said...

does it matter if the frame or tire or tube failed first? fact, the wheel still failed when it shouldn't have.

follow the money. a second recall will be expensive for the redesign and replacement of the wheels to say nothing of lost revenue from declining sales of other models carrying the company name.

as for Lemond, who knows what his motives really are, he's just annoying.

Kurt Vonnegut is King said...

BSNYC said:

"They do deserve credit for following up, though I'd still argue that a wheel should be able to survive a tire blowout or even a frame failure with at least a few spokes intact."

If my frame fails at 30 MPH, does it really matter whether the wheel is intact thereafter? (aside from resale value, of course.)

I hate to insert a vehicular analogy here but I will anyway: Let's say a Toyota pickup truck frame fails due to excessive corrosion while hauling wheelchairs to the orphanage. The driver loses control and in the ensuing mayhem, the truck heads for the ditch, rolls over, and generally mangles the body and chassis components.

The frame supplier might investigate that incident and say that bent steering tie rods caused the driver to lose control, and the ensuing crash broke the frame.

The steering-gear supplier would likely conclude just the opposite.

The point I'm trying to make (without adding any humor [or humour] to the blog), is that any accident contains a series of cause-and-effect events, and a responsible investigation makes no definite conclusion until the true first causes are understood.

Full disclosure - I do not work for Mavic, nor do I have any vested interest whatsoever. I just think fair is fair.

Mavic F'd up in a colossal way with the first generation wheel. I have no idea whether the new wheel is foolproof - it's certainly not bombproof - but I'll give them the benefit of the doubt, as they at least did the responsible thing the first time around. (Didn't they?)

I apologize for the serious interlude. Now back to the funny...

Head on over to Youtube and look up "Scraper bike". Damn song is stuck in my head...

David said...

No opinion on Lemond but for Mavic this is SOP.

Google: mavic x517 crack

If you're a glutton for such things search the usenet archives (Google Groups).

They kept this clearly defective product on the market for several years. I bought some at the recommendation of an otherwise excellent LBS. When they failed and I subsequently turned up the information on the web, the Mavic rep denied it all and refused to credit the LBS for the defective rims.

Clearly not all Mavic products are crap but the firm is crap. Don't do business with these sleazebags.

bikesgonewild said...

...marcj...firstly, i would imagine most of us here have empathy for lemond but personally i think the most concise comment on this post regarding his situation came from Bob Loblaw (great name) who said...

..."Thank you for noting Lemond's "virtue untested." If he wants to talk about doping, he should talk about what he actually knows,--doping when he was riding. Because we know for a fact it was being done,--they just weren't tested for it.

But instead he insists on "naming names" of riders who are doping now. It is literally impossible for him to have any personal knowledge of that."
...

...regarding that presentation:-- wow...rather than grabbing the audiences attention from the get go & leading them into "another greg doping discussion", i found the initial unfocused rambling to be more of a sad commentary on lemond's present state...

...marcj, personally, i will always have a place in my heart for lemond & what he propelled himself through to accomplish what he did...
...his prominence on a world stage changed the face of both north american cycling & cycling in general...the pay structure, the technology (some of it at least), hell, just the attitude...americans wouldn't simply be relegated to being domestiques...here was a guy who "got it" & "just did it"...

...anyway...i know he'd like to "save" the sport but i think it could all be handled better & lemond would be best remembered for his accomplishments...

rezado said...

Scraaaaper bike.

-wtym

hillbilly said...

kvik - you aren't doing your namesake proud, i am at a loss at why you are so deadset on giving Mavic the benefit of the doubt, i would think your (rightfully honored namesake, I'll cut you a break on having good taste in that regard) would more correctly apply the "if it looks like a duck" axiom

bikesgonewild said...

...hey, Kurt Vonnegut is King, re:-- yer comment...
..."...fails due to excessive corrosion while hauling wheelchairs to the orphanage. The driver loses control and in the ensuing mayhem, the truck heads for the ditch, rolls over..."...

...if you'd had the crashing truck crush a momma duck & her flock of baby ducklings or maybe some cute little kitties that were playing in the ditch, maybe ya coulda squeezed a little more empathy out for old mavic...

...truth is, they've made great shit for years...my fucking ksyerium es's are "bullet proof" but maybe, just maybe their attempt to be innovative w/ the latest technology did not take as many basic "fail" scenario's into the equation as were possible...

mikey said...

LeMonster!

Anonymous said...

Greg LeMonster is just bitter that 2009 drugs are so much better than 1986ish drugs.


CommieCanuck - Great comments today. But, with your personal health in mind I'd like to ask, have you ever considered dialing back your daily mah huang intake by two or three ounces?

If you accidentally did a double dose today then please disregard my comment.

red neckerson said...

if them french bastards would have used crabon none of this would have happened

boy howdy

BikeSnobNYC said...

Kurt Vonnegut is King,

If my frame fails at 30 MPH, does it really matter whether the wheel is intact thereafter?

To me it does. If I split my pants I'd at least like my underpants to hold together.

--RTMS

Anonymous said...

I'm dumb, but isn't crabon really great for tensile applications, and not for compressive stuff ? 'Le-squeeze-tests' aside

bikesgonewild said...

...snob sez...To me it does. If I split my pants I'd at least like my underpants to hold together....
--RTMS...

...stained as they may be...

Fierce Panties said...

I wear underwear under my chammy, and now I understand why.

Pillettelawoffice said...

All products sold in the United States come with an "implied warranty of merchantability," which means that the product can be safely used for what that product is typically used for.

For one example, a chair seller impliedly warrants that his chair can be sat upon without splintering and collapsing. For another, a bicycle wheel seller impliedly warrants that his wheel can be ridden upon without splintering and collapsing.

Another legal concept applicable here is "res ipsa loquitur"--literally, "the thing speaks for itself." A picture of a bike rider who is in the process of falling off his bike thanks to an exploding R-Sys front wheel literally says it all.

Re the issue of proximate causation, OF COURSE Mavic is pointing the finger at anyone and anything in the vicinity. Companies don't take responsibility by saying so in writing, they do it by paying money to settle lawsuits (which settlement will include the statement that it denies responsibility).

Any R-Sys owners who live in California are invited to contact me via pillettelawoffice@gmail.com.

Anonymous said...

Well, there goes the neighborhood. The first ambulance chaser has arrived.

Anonymous said...

snzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Kurt Vonnegut is King said...

Ironically-named Hillbilly said:

"I am at a loss at why you are so deadset on giving Mavic the benefit of the doubt..." [punctuation and capitalization added]

The truth is, I am just in a contrarian mood today.

As for our litigious new friend, the picture of an exploding R-sys front wheel does indeed say it all. About the previous design. It says nothing of the new design.

broomie said...

So, the wheel won't fail unless I get flat tire? I feel much safer! I'm getting a wheelset for my mom, too!

Anonymous said...

seems like if the wheels are still exploding.... it DOES say something about the new design

Anquetil's Mother said...

Well... if you go to

http://www.mavic.com/r-sys/

and look at "creating the R Sys"
you will find
that the design looks very conspicuously similar to this:

http://bikesnobnyc.blogspot.com/2008/01/purloined-letter-ball-to-hed.html

just sayin....

Kurt Vonnegut is King said...

Anon 6:50,

You said wheel(s) are exploding?

Well then I stand corrected. Can you tell me more about the subsequent failures?

Anonymous said...

http://www.velonews.com/photo/93056

boom. hair everywhere.

You may be in a contrary mood but 2+2 is still 4.

Kurt Vonnegut is King said...

My apologies for muddying up such a good comments section. But I have one last proof positive regarding structural implications of spoke engineering:

http://tinyurl.com/ywnhzy

Anonymous said...

Ben Delaney is a real pussy in his treatment of Mavic in his article. He is sitting there in pain and taking no stance at all really. Did his balls get blown off when the wheel imploded?

Blanca Brava said...

Biking related humor isn't really all that funny. It's boring. You shouldn't waste your talent on this crap, aren't you in the Big Apple? There aren't opportunities dripping off the trees for comedy writers? I would love to be there. Wasting your satirical POV on this crap will never reel in the dough...ever.

BikeSnobNYC said...

Blanca Brava,

If you'd love to be here then I encourage you to follow your dream and move to NYC. I'm sure you'll you won't have any problems getting dripped on.

--BSNYC

Anonymous said...

to the salmon on bleeker on the litespeed, yes I did lend you my chinese handkerchief, you're welcome

Brian said...

Man, the comments are almost as good as the blog today! You've got an ambulance-chasing lawyer openly soliciting people, a contrarian Kurt, and some horrible writer who's telling Snobby that he's wasting his talent. It sounds like the never-aired season 4 of Arrested Development.

Tim- said...

Blanca Brava = cunt

Anonymous said...

Blanca Brava-

It's too bad you missed the Parade yesterday, you would have thought you were famous here already because everyone new your name. Right? It translates to something like "Angry White Bitch" - you've got to have a great sense of humor.

Snob, don't pass this opportunity up - you could be a staff writer on Scrubs if you wanted...

kale said...

Blanca Brava is that you?

cyclotourist said...

Wow.

Today's post was the "News from Lake Wobegon" sort of a posting from BSNYC/RTMS. The audience chuckles nervously at the "funnies" while really wondering what's making them so uncomfortable inside.

Not a ha-ha funny sort of a day.

My Concerta is wearing off so would have preferred that the two subjects (Mavic explod-o-wheel and Greg "Crazy Eyes" LeMond) would have been split into two posts though. Hey look, a bird!

Now get back to discussing fixie-hipsters and their girlie pants. It's been a long weekend!

And happy birthday or whatever.

Disgruntl Ed. said...

non-sequitors? if only he wasn't?

Ahem.

Anonymous said...

Multi-week stage racing started in the same era as pole sitting and dance marathons -- it wasn't a sport -- it was a stunt, a rolling circus, used to promote a newspaper; you took whatever was needed to get through it; the culture hasn't changed. The doping now isn't more common, it's just more effective -- talk to Dr. Ferrari.

Disgruntl Ed. said...

Ant1, Armstrong is no BSNYC. Look at Lance's literary contributions and think again.

What vicious innuendo.

Disgruntl Ed. said...

oh, 100

MJ Klein said...

the business of cycling is dirtier than the business of radio.

Patrock said...

http://www.flickr.com/photos/60388247@N00/2538457898

Yet another R-SYS failure.

The pawl from the freehub broke through the freehub shell causing the wheel to instantly become a "Fixed" wheel.
It looks like Mavic is just using the R-SYS as a way to speed up the fixed gear apocalypse.

Anonymous said...

I like my early eighties mavic hubs, they are slick, sealed, and have stout flanges for spokes (steel) to hook onto them real good. aaah progress.

bikesgonewild said...

...bullshit anon 8:54pm...

...dance marathons & pole sitting were definitely cunning stunts used during the roaring '20's & the depression era '30's for publicity...

...bicycle racing was an established & valid sport in it's own right when the french newspaper l'auto decided to garner better circulation by promoting a long, multiple stage bicycle race...

...as far as substances used, no doubt...we all know that...but get yer basic premise right for fuck's sake...

...& if you are so ignorant as to lump those activities together w/out seeing the obvious differences, wake the fuck up & start working on yer intelligent quotient...

Anonymous said...

Who does Blanca Brava think she is? Did anyone check out her blog? Its pathetic. Newsweek is wrong, you (Blanca Brava) do not get the job done.

BSNYC-
Keep up the good work, its great and hilarious.

broomie said...

Why would anyone even hesitate to condemn the wheel. They blow up! What other wheel just falls apart, for whatever reason?

Oops, my bike fell off the kickstand and then the wheel exploded. Oops, too much pressure in the tube-pop! the wheel exploded! Darn, I broke the valve stem and the wheel exploded. I was eating pop rocks and coke and the wheel exploded. I was dripping on Blanca Brava and my wheel exlploded!

Luck E. Seven said...

Broken truck frame palps excessive corrosion

IS NOT THE SAME AS

spontaneous wheel catastrophe has Mavic dripping.


A

Surly Bastard said...

Whatt the fuck broke all the spokes? Even if the frame broke, the fork snapped, the handlebars folded, the bottle cage mounts came unglued, the seat post slipped - why did all the spokes break? I've seen wheels break from impact against immovable objects; taco'd, bent, and broken from the hit or some head, arm or leg getting shoved through it, but not the whole Ben Hur chariot chop job on every damn spoke. And did Mavic ever check out your "killer bee" or "Rolf sniper on the grassy knoll" theories? That's more likely than what they're saying.

ringcycles said...

I realize it is a faux pas to be serious on this blog, but...

cyclotourist is right, the commentary about Greg Lemond hits a bit close to the bone. Greg was my first hero in cycling. I still remember watching the coverage of his win on the Champs Elyses in the '89 Tour. It was magical. Now he sounds like a bitter, frustrated, self absorbed, used to be. Not the champion that he was.

My second hero in cycling is Steve Tilford. Visiting the old home town a few years ago, I got to chat up Steve over a beer. He named the guys he thought were doping in the MTB World Cup circuit in the 1990's and costing him wins/podiums. His attitude at the end was "but I'm just racing my bike the best way I know how, what I get is what I earn, and I get to live with that". There was no bitterness, just a realization that this is the sport and you choose how to play it, clean or not.

Maybe the difference between Greg and Steve is that Lemond is "done with the sport" except in the court room or media, while Tilford is still racing his bike. I will always admire what Lemond achieved in racing. I admire what Tilford is doing today.

Pack Phil said...

Delaney didn't "rock" that wheel, he "slayed" it.

Dan said...

Snobby.... I think you've just jumped the shark.... Lance Armstrong just twittered a link to this blog post....

It's been nice knowing you.

:-)

Jenni said...

LeMond may have hit his head on the pavement too many times before the advent of helmets, hence the brainfarts.

But Tilford is 49 and he still holds a pro license. He must thrive on punishment. But hey, here is a great article on his career: http://www.pitch.com/2009-01-22/news/edge-of-50/

Anonymous said...

It sad to see Greg LeMond have come to this. Just painful.

Terry said...

I've had a whole lot of Mavic rims over the last 30+ years with no issue but always stayed away from the fancy stuff.

Todd said...

Hey snob, looks like Lance Armstrong has picked up your scent - http://twitter.com/lancearmstrong

Donna said...

I watched Greg Lemond's 50 minute speech, what I could stand, anyway. Too painful to watch the whole thing. Everyone else writes about admiring Greg for his great talent as a cyclist in spite of his illogical rants. Not me. I think Lance Armstrong has handled Greg with as much aplomb as anyone could. Must drive Lemond crazy to be ignored or treated with indifference. Greg obviously does these things for attention.

Ronsonic said...

Here's an interesting part of Mavic's response, "The horizontal tube under the chest of the cyclist is broken."

If this thing was written by bicycle people wouldn't they have just called it a top tube?

Anonymous said...

come on dan 12:56 and todd 1:29 its not like LA hasn't quoted RTMS before on twitter and appears to be on the payroll...

however, the LA tweet seems a little bush league to me. why even comment about lemond at this point?

wishiwasmerckx said...

Snob rents his mellow johnnies t-shirts whenever he needs one -- much cheaper than buying.

marypoppins said...

I wonder if any one (with the internet) is still riding on those mavic wheels? Thats why we don't see more of them failling.

Anonymous said...

Hi

I don't read the other comments.

Lance just namechecked you on twitter.

Anyone hear about that wheel breaking and then the makers not wanting to admit they were wrong?

Monty Burns said...

These wheels do not meet UCI regs do they? All the Kevlar sring is broken, the hub is entirely detatched from the rim.

Hbarton said...

Guess I'll have to be the one to stick up for LeMond here, I actually really enjoyed his presentation. (By the way, for anyone who hasn't watched it, I highly recommend it - in fact I'd say that watching it in its entirety should be a prerequisite for commenting here, since I think - with all due respect - that the presentation is misrepresented by BSNYC.)

A few notes regarding the presentation, and what's been said here:

1. Not only do I not mind the "bad delivery," I kind of like it. LeMond isn't an academic, he's an athlete who was invited to an academic conference, or let's say a conference with an academic bent. Here's a good mental exercise: try to think of 10 athletes - I'm not talking Michael Barry, I'm talking guys at the top of their sports - who would do better than him. I'm sure some people will come up with lists, but the point is, he's not there to deliver a 20pp paper he's just written, he's there to share his perspectives and experiences from inside the sport. I actually find the non-fluency with which he speaks kind of refreshing - I'd rather have a real guy up there than some over-polished salesman. Yeah, he's a strange guy with a big personality (isn't this true of a lot of great cyclists?), and he's all over the place a lot of the time - can we please have more people like that in this age of boring conformism? (By the way if you really want embarrassing rhetoric, I'd look no further than Armstrong's Twitter response - if I remember right it was "uh oh, someone drank too much hate-orade and ate too many hate-er tots.")

2. BSNYC writes the following: "Certainly drugs exist in cycling now just as they did before--and during--LeMond's heyday. However, LeMond's argument simply seems to be that the practice of doping is worse now than it was in his time, despite the fact that there was much less testing then." I don't really see this in LeMond's presentation. In fact, LeMond goes out of his way to say that drug use was absolutely everywhere in the 80s: he even says that at the time, when he joined those advocating for mandatory drug tests, other riders came up to him and complained that this would disrespect their "human rights" (why does BSNYC not mention this?). LeMond's argument about doping is not that it became more widespread in the 90s, but that it became more efficacious: he claims that a guy like him, who was "very blessed genetically" (why does BSNYC poke fun at this statement?), could still compete against the relatively ineffective drugs of the 80s, but that had he come along just a few years later, things would have been much more difficult.

Anyways sorry to go on forever, just let me say that it's not my intention to insult the blog, I usually really enjoy it. I just thought it would be worthwhile to present an alternative perspective.

Anonymous said...

BSNYC you seem to be forgetting that the performance benefits of amphetamines (LeMond era doping) are far less effective than the current line of designer blood enhancers like EPO, CERA, HGH, etc.

The cellphone reference in his speech is alluding to a rider in this year's Giro di Italia on film yapping it up on a cell phone while climbing in the peloton on a Cat.1 climb.

You might not own a Mellow Johnny shirt but you have be absolutely blind as a bat to think someone can undergo chemotherapy and then come back to compete at an elite level against a peloton chock full of guys in prime condition running doped to the gills with blood boosters and spedning hundreds of thousands of dollars having "physicians" helping them dope their blood and tweak their hormone levels.

To borrow some of Mavic's lawyer speak:

FACT: Armstrong samples have tested positive for EPO in French labs.

FACT: Armstrong was a client of Dr. Michelle Ferrari, the same Dr. who was found gulty of helping other riders dope during the same era that Armstrong associated with him.

Regardless of LeMond's bumbling attempts at bringing to light the cancerous corruption and doping that goes on within the sport your ridiculous diatribe does nothing.

You can either shit or get off the pot. Trying to hide behind "I'm just a comedy blog" ala the John Stewart defense is ridiculous.

Take a fucking stand and grow some balls. You know doping is rampant. I know doping is rampant. Use your readership abilities to speak about this rather than how inept LeMond is as a public speaker.

"You Lose! Good day sir!"

Mellow Jaundiced said...

Lance, stop Twittering and get your stock sorted out. You haven't had any large cycling shirts in MJs for weeks. What's wrong with you man?

Anonymous said...

Lemond's diatribe is sad in the extreme. He is a rider I greatly admired, the manner in which he won races and competed was exceptional (note the use of past tense).

He seems to have brought the troubles of his pesonal life into the troubles in his professional life. How many times does he mention litigation/lawsuits in the presentation...? !

Did he not recently win $40m or some such massive figure in a lawsuit regarding his Montana private mountain resort. He should go off and have a happy rich private life, stay away from the sport if all he can do is take shots from the sidelines.
Trek were right to give him the boot.

When was the last time he did something to help the sport?
Greg's world is all about money and lawsuits. Very sad way for such a legendary rider to end up.
For me, it's much less about the delivery of what he says, than it is about the content.
Clearly he was in cahoots with ASO trying to set up a new federation outside of the UCI - his ego was rubbed when TdF bosses called him over on a 'get to know him' basis and his Frenchie friend, Cofidis coach Boyer, wanted to break away from the UCI also.
Well their plan really worked out didn't it ? NOT

Lemond...the name used to be synonymous with success and winning, now it's with bitterness and brainfarts.
Sad..

minos said...

Anon posted the tired opinion of Greg supporting Lance Haters,
"
You might not own a Mellow Johnny shirt but you have be absolutely blind as a bat to think someone can undergo chemotherapy and then come back to compete at an elite level against a peloton chock full of guys in prime condition running doped to the gills with blood boosters and spedning hundreds of thousands of dollars having "physicians" helping them dope their blood and tweak their hormone levels."

My reply starts out like this,
"You might not own a I love Greg shirt but you have TO be absolutely blind as a bat to think someone can undergo being shot in the chest with a shotgun and then come back to compete at an elite level against a peloton chock full of guys in prime condition..."
Can you see where I am going with this?

Anonymous said...

They are closing in Bikesnob.....http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/the_web/article6509677.ece

Anonymous said...

http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/
tech_and_web/the_web/article6509677.ece

Anonymous said...

Is Lemond suggesting using the teams own power meters to catch them cheating? Or is it possible to measure power by just looking at times and gradients?

If he is suggesting power meters for all, they would all need to be calibrated, tamper proof, etc. This would be an unprecedented step, locking down the bike. Who would get the contract to develop them? All riders would of course have to use the same device.

Almost as impressive as Mavic's lack of information about how the R-SYS wheel works.

Before long there will be no one left who knows how a bike works.

Jacked Up Old Man said...

It always comes back to what you believe.
In my heyday I could train 1000hr a yr plus on nothing but caffiene and endogenous dopamine.
I believe that it is definitaley possible and plausible that people can train and win these races. Drug free.
Maybe I am Naive.
But Cheaters should be stripped of their accolades . Period.
There are numerous people who have won Olympic and World Championship Medals that have admitted or been implicated in doping that have had not had their results expunged from the record books.
Unless they are American.
Next Winter I am planning a Walter Mittyesque Cinderella Story Return to the Olympics and want better end result then believable..
What will you accuse me of???
What I will be Guilty of is Dreaming, Sacrifice, and Suffering. Not to mention Hard Work.
http://www.jackedupoldman.com

Anonymous said...

hmm.. what could i accuse you of.

Being too PC.

Jeffrey said...

Y'all are jackasses. Mavic actually makes a very reasoned case that LOTS of other stuff went wrong on that bike. And the damning fact is, the dude's fork would have gone straight to the pavement like a goddamn lawn dart if the spokes suddenly gave out. Think about it -- how would you break spokes? With body weight! It's fun being snarky and all, but let's not try to be fourth-hand detectives using only VeloNews as our source.

Anonymous said...

Of course you are correct Jeffrey. It all comes down to timeframe, ie: how quickly all this happened, vs the chances of it happening.

Pack Phil said...

Jeffrey, y'all a Mavic employee? Lots of things went wrong, but lots of things will go wrong on crabon fibhr once the first thing goes wrong. One busted spoke with some horse hair snagging on a break pad will result in OTB, without the fork hitting the ground first. Even if it did, the hub would have protected the dropouts of the fork. All we've got to be snarky detectives with is from VeloNews, unfortunately we'll never hear the real story from Mavic as it will be very, very, very well filtered by laywers, with some marketing folk (anonymous or not) defending Mavic in various places (velonews, blogs, etc.)

CommieCanuck said...

anon 5:16..mah huang is not good for ma wang, if ya know wadda mean.

If you can't stand the proverbial heat, keep out of the metaphorical kitchen.

CommieCanuck said...

Jackedupoldfart...funny, I don't remember Tyler Hamilton, Alexi Grewal, or Carl Lewis returning any medals.

Check out this year's Giro results:

5. Ivan Basso, Italy, Liquigas, +3:59.

roll back the olde clock to 2006...

1. Ivan Basso, CSC, 9:18 ahead of anyone, and over 19 minutes ahead of 5th place.

But Ivan was only intending to dope in 2006, and he's vouched for his integrity by Bjarne Riis. Mr. Integrity.

CommieCanuck said...

It clearly states on the MAVIC R-SYS rim:

"pas pour sauter par-dessus des requins"

Roughly, "not suitable for jumping sharks".

Mah (James) huang!

Surly Bastard said...

So Jeffry you're saying body weight alone will break the RySwhatever spokes?

That really sucks. They should try steel, or alloy. I hear that works.

D Raj said...

The stupidest trustifarian tight-jeaned wearing colorwayed-riding hipster fixter is still about 20 times smarter than the team of Mavic "engineers" and their brilliant analysis of the wreck. When the DeHavilland Comets started blowing up in mid-air, the Brits had the sense to put the fuselage in a water tank and pressure cycle it until they replicated the failure. Reckon any of Mavic's genius engineers has yet thrown an R-sys on a roller and subjected it to semi-realistic loads? Probably not, they're spending their money on legal maneuvering instead. Assholes.

And Blanca Brava - she's kidding right? Someone with a blog about celebrities that gets like 1 or 2 comments a day (and races bikes on the side) telling Snob to move on?

And the real question: How will Snob's journalistic integrity re: Mavic play out with his new employer, who might actually be getting a little of the Mavic love just like the unbiased VeloNews? My money's on Snob's integrity.

Surly Bastard said...

Here's what really happened to those RySr2D2 spokes. It's was caught on video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nKnFLPV2yDY

Rage Against The Numbty said...

I blame Drew's cancer

Alareth said...

Obviously it was location that caused it. The carbon spokes were designed to work only at sea level.

The decreased air pressure of the higher Colorado elevations caused them to operate outside of design specifications.

Clearly operator error.

* Wait's for a call from Mavic with a job offer for PR consultant

Anonymous said...

Last year some of the Mpls Scallywags went on a bike ride somewhere in Minnetonka, Mn with Greg LeMond. It was a strange happenstance to say the least. Scallywags? Greg LeMond? He was a nice guy and we had lunch together in which he paid the bill for a dozen of us broke ass 'wags. Nice! He and a friend had to leave and so they rushed off leaving behind his water bottle on the table. All of us stared at one another as to what we would do with it.
Heck no, we aint returning it. So, we all took turns tasting what was in the bottle and it was some kind of dissolved lime-tasting airborne type of thing. We were hoping for some kind of wonder beverage that hasnt been released to the public that would help us ride for days on end. Not sure what happened to it after that but there were talks of slapping it up on ebay to see what we would get for it. Probably got tossed. We all have purple arms now for some reason!?!

Bike Mechanic said...

Assuming you're traveling in a straight line, if your spokes break at speed, your front wheel (rim and tire) will smash into your down tube, compromising the rim, tire, tube, and possibly (as in this case) the frame, and throwing you over the bars. Your hub and fork will act as if nothing had happened because the entire force of the impact was taken by the rim/tire/tube and frame.

It's simple physics really, and one more reason I won't buy high-end Mavic stuff (especially crabon stuff)... ever.

Anonymous said...

How did you miss the opportunity to go with, "Mavic R-Sys, We pulled this design out of our arses!", or is it just too obvious?

Anonymous said...

Lemond = Douche. If Lance doped prove it. Otherwise STFU!

Lemond is a media whore, who will do and say anything to be perceived as relevant to the current discussion.

With all respect BSNY I think Lemonds actual presentation was much worse than the quotes you chose to share. I urge those who have questions about whether or not it was really that bad, to watch it for themselves. Because it is.

Jacked Up Old Man said...

Exactly. Lance is clean. The other Malfeasor's should pay. Do not why this person smears peoples names.

Kurt Vonnegut is King said...

Bike Mechanic, it was the top tube that broke (or so I'm told - I haven't seen a picture yet).

Physics are not simple.

ken e. said...

physics are simple. it's just tricky calculating the influence of the rest of the universe.
little weight, trundle cart on a string, & some math...
whoops! forgot the dr. pepper filling. there's your problem right there, too much caffeine in the crabon spokes.

Bike Mechanic said...

Even so, if you're leaning over the bars in a normal riding position and your front wheel suddenly stops and smashes into the down tube, the continued forward momentum of your body can put a lot of unnatural force on the bars and could have contributed to the top tube breaking in some way.

My main point was that it wasn't the frame or the tire or the tube that caused the crash, it was the wheel, and that all of Mavic's "forensic experts" have shit for brains and apparently have never seen someone's wheel fall out of the dropouts. The crash looks eerily similar, and there is also no damage to the hub or fork.

bikesgonewild said...

...went out for a coupla hours on my ksyerium es's yesterday afternoon...aluminum alloy spokes...who'd a thunk, right ???...

...even hopped a curb, just becuz & not a problem...ridden 'em for two full years, never gone out of true & not a problem...

...mavic has made good shit for years & not a problem but the r-sys in iterations #1 & #2 seems to have a few problems...

...they're like greg lemond::: used to be good - now, not so much...fix the fucking problem...

LastBoyScout said...

Bike Mechanic, I agree completely. Kurt, use your head. Let's break the failure down.

Option A: (1) spoke breaks, rider straightens bike and begins to slow, (2) other spokes fail, (3) bike fork falls onto wheel and wheel contacts downtube [this results in (a) the skid marks on the inside of the fork per photos and (b) the ovalized rim, which in turn causes (i) the tire to come off the rim slightly per the Mavic photos]
Option B: (1) top tube spontaneously breaks [really it cracks, as it didn't appear to fail catastrophically and disintegrate], (2) rider endos [thus destroying the wheel]
Option C: (1) tire comes off wheel, (2) rider endos, (3) wheel is destroyed

Both options B and C (the Mavic options) are logically and physically flawed. Option B would require an ovalizing of the wheel when it struck the ground. Since the rider was slowing, I really doubt there would be enough force to accomplish this. If option C occurred, then the tire would NOT have left mostly symetrical tire markings on the fork, as one side would have a huge streak. Further, only sliding contact (i.e. the wheel was moving through the fork) could produce the skid marks. For the skid marks/sliding action, the rim must have been detached from the hub (i.e. the spokes weren't connecting the hub to the rim).

CommieCanuck said...

^^^wow..internet wanking without looking at porn^^^

CommieCanuck said...

I meant foffing.

hillbilly said...

Hi Commie,
What's new? Would you care to discuss anything not related to physics with me? Lead out?

Bike Mechanic said...

What's wrong with physics?

Especially when it clearly shows how baseless the Mavic 'investigation' is.

Bike Mechanic said...

We should all be out riding our bikes anyway

hillbilly said...

I couldn't agree more bike mechanic, i'm on your side.

Carpetbagger said...

...Paging Gerard Rue

bikesgonewild said...

...theory:-- mavic r-sys wheelsets are really miniature alien space stations...
...they were designed by aliens to use available power sources common to their localized environment, ie:- in this case cyclist's wattage output...
...economically & environmentally sound concept for space travel...

...extrapolation:-- flawed design in r-sys is in actuality fault of aliens who based launch system on wheel-speed w/out realizing how well modern quick releases work...

...realization #1:-- the health & safety of a "ben delaney" is a small price to pay vs. the well being of a whole alien crew...

...realization #2:-- when the design is perfected, we will see crashed "ben delaneys" & no trace of the wheels/alien space stations...

Carlos said...

Ze reazon why ze R-Sys cannot be at fault iz becauze it iz FRANCH! Zuch merde-tetes, zeze znobby Noo Yorquerz.

Anonymous said...

Lemond's presentation may not be the smoothest in the world, but it comes across as very credible.

Anonymous said...

Telling off LeMond doesn't mean you're pro-Lance. I don't know where you guys get that. It's just so fashionable to be anti-Lance and pro-Lemond. It makes you retro-cool. So go out with your pink and green fixed gear with King hubs

LeMond pulling an R-Sys was his belief that he's the only one who could win the Tour clean and trounce dopers. Is 1989 the closest Tour in history? Take out everyone caught for doping, admitted to doping, or involved in a scandal... and second place would've been 10 minutes back. I think that's what most people call... "extraterrestrial."

Anonymous said...

1. if you read this you are a fag.

2. fag

3. go donkey punch each other

4. road cycling is track and baseball minus the athleticism.

Anonymous said...

If there's no damage to the headtube/downtube interface or the fork/steerer-tube interface, then the front wheel didn't pull the fork back to the downtube to lock up and snap the spokes, the wheel snapped the spokes and jammed back into the downtube and fork.

As for the report, the engineers weren't giving out explanations, just listing the facts and saying they had no proof yet. Implying that they were implying things at this point is fun but pointless.

As for Lemond, he says he has hearsay including a near-confession from the person he's implicated who is suing him for it. He repeated some of it in his talk, (which reminds me of some of my forays into public speaking so good on ya, Greg, for getting through that with at least some humor). Do I believe him? Do I believe the other guy? That's not my job, mang.

Whether to spend effort and money to identify past cheats that could be spent on stopping current cheats is an ethical and economic dilemma. Whether to stop cheating or not is no kind of dilemma at all.

Someone who cheated to win in a pro sport is a thief. He stole from every competitor there who didn't cheat and could have made more money that day, that year, or during or after their career. He stole from the sponsors who contracted for a clean race (unless they were in on it). And he stole from the fans of the sport who create the economic conditions for it to proliferate on the premise that they are watching an honest competition, not a work of fiction.

I'm going to go ride and try not to think about any of these things. It won't be hard. There are bigger problems in this world and I don't let them stop me from enjoying my life, either.

Anonymous said...

Sorry Bike Snob, but your rant against LeMond was as incoherent and pointless as you portrayed his to be.

Anonymous said...

you have a very very narcissistic view of cycling it is the sport of true dedication.
you are just looking for something to bitch about.....because you are old,and wish you where a much better cyclist than you are.

i would stick to your local club rides

Anonymous said...

1. Damn those vicious sarcasmists for not providing a "fair and balanced" presentation of the facts.

Fact: It's all Ocaña's fault.

2. See that ripped out valve stem? See what Bike Mechanic said? The latter is how the former happens, as the tire is braked against the fork crown/down tube while the rim still has enough spoke connected to it to continue to drive the rim. Exacerbated by the fact that while all this is going on the rider's weight is being transfered directly onto the failing system. The frame around the head tube is now in a prestressed state; as the hub hits the ground and carbon does what we have just seen carbon do - fail catastrophically.

It's simple, straight forward rocket science (which actually is simple and straight forward; it's rocket engineering where things get complimacated; and Mavic's shuttle just blew up).

Anonymous said...

Greg has never explained, to my knowledge, how he could have come back from being shot in the heart and almost dying to win the TdF without doping. It's his biggest slam on LA. Greg started whining when BH wouldn't give him the TdF (you know, the race you have to win) and hasn't stopped.

Anonymous said...

Mavic's handling of this was obviously done by a team of lawyers, not engineers. Bad move.

That said, none of our speculation will accurately determine real cause of the wheel failure. We know that the R-Sys spoke design was not as damage-tolerant as it should have been from day one. But what caused the damage to Delaney's wheel? A manufacturing defect? A chip in a spoke during shipping? Inadvertent unseen damage from use? Sabotage from a competitor? A sharp rock hitting the spoke?

No one knows, and no one will ever know. Mavic clearly has some work to do on customer service AND in re-proving the toughness of their carbon spokes. All that said, the Tracomp technology is a huge leap forward and, when it has proven itself durable, it may very well be THE climbing wheel of choice.

Until then, I'll keep training on my old trusty Cane Creek wheels (no longer made, darn it!!!!)

dinoibo said...

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Every year millions of small weights are attached to tires by automotive technicians balancing them.Traditionally, these weights have been made of lead, but since lead is a toxic metal political authorities and industrial groups are in the process of converting to materials that are less toxic than lead. Wheels And Tires

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Anonymous said...

"As a cycling fan, I certainly wouldn't accuse LeMond of cheating, nor would I argue against the obvious fact that he competed against other cyclists who did or that riders continue to cheat today."

As a cycling fan, I would accuse Greg LeMond of cheating long with the other cyclists of his era.