It can be fun to laugh at other people's bike setups and clothing choices. For example, if you're anything like me, you probably find this mudflap-to-spat conversion (as spotted on the Rivendell site by a reader) quite humorous:
Honestly, I'm not sure whether or not Rivendell are serious or if this is their stuffy, desiccated idea of a joke (or in fact what "double-cuty" means--I guess putting mudflaps on your shoes is twice as cute as putting them on your fenders) but either way I can say that this person's feet now look like the proboscis of a platypus. Yet while most of us would probably laugh at someone with mudflaps tied to their feet, few of us would say that someone should not be allowed to "run" them this way. If it works and it keeps your Wilsons clean (it's tough to "peep" due to the mudflaps, but I think those are the new Wilson x Rivendell "collabo" joints)--and you don't mind people pointing and laughing at you--then you should of course feel free to lash whatever you want to your feet and to tell the haters what to suck.
What people should not be allowed to do is just make crap up. If you want to platypusize your feet, fine. If you want to put flat bars on your road bike, fine. If you want to ride your track bike on the street, fine. You just can't reinvent history in order to do it, and sadly this is what's happening now. Last week, we actually saw a company called "Sexy Bicycles" claim in a single sentence that the Tour de France existed in the 19th century but that gears did not. This is a highly impressive fallacy-to-sentence ratio, but it's nothing compared to the information contained in this advertisement, forwarded to me by a reader in the UK:
This ad appeared in a tabloid called Sunday People, and concerns cheap bikes available in a variety of "colourways:"
It also contains a brief history of the track bike:
I was surprised to learn that "Track bikes were originally designed for the West Indian Community coming to New York in the 60's," and were only recently "optimised for competitive track racing across the World." Foolishly, I had always thought track bikes were, well, track bikes, and that the whole "riding them on the street" thing came later. I had also thought that track racing was really, really old, so the fact that the bikes were only invented in the 1960s really blew my mind. But while the ad says the bikes were "designed for the West Indian Community," it doesn't say who designed them. Was the track bike invented in the Caribbean and sold to people before they departed for the US, or was it designed by the City of New York and then given to them on arrival? If the latter, then one of these "old school" city-issue 1960s track bikes would surely command a fortune on Craigslist. Also, whoever it was had considerable foresight in naming them "track bikes," since obviously in the 60s track racing had not yet been invented.
This ad appeared in a tabloid called Sunday People, and concerns cheap bikes available in a variety of "colourways:"
It also contains a brief history of the track bike:
I was surprised to learn that "Track bikes were originally designed for the West Indian Community coming to New York in the 60's," and were only recently "optimised for competitive track racing across the World." Foolishly, I had always thought track bikes were, well, track bikes, and that the whole "riding them on the street" thing came later. I had also thought that track racing was really, really old, so the fact that the bikes were only invented in the 1960s really blew my mind. But while the ad says the bikes were "designed for the West Indian Community," it doesn't say who designed them. Was the track bike invented in the Caribbean and sold to people before they departed for the US, or was it designed by the City of New York and then given to them on arrival? If the latter, then one of these "old school" city-issue 1960s track bikes would surely command a fortune on Craigslist. Also, whoever it was had considerable foresight in naming them "track bikes," since obviously in the 60s track racing had not yet been invented.
Even so, between the British ad and the "Sexy Bicycles" website I think I'm finally getting a handle on my cycling history:
1800s
Tour de France is invented, and riders compete on singlespeeds (not fixed-gears). However, since gears had not yet been invented, the singlespeeds must have been direct drive. Therefore, the first Tour de France riders competed on pennyfarthings that could coast.
1900s
Gears are invented, and then sent thousands of years back in time to when people first started using them.
1960s
The "track bike" is invented for New York City-bound West Indians.
2005-ish?
"Track racing" is invented; Marshall "Major" Taylor lies in his grave wondering what exactly it was he had been doing his entire life.
Today
This:
I must admit, though, that thanks to the British ad certain things are now falling into place. For example, I now understand how this could be considered a "track racing bike:"
track racing bike - $1400 (bronx)
Date: 2009-11-22, 1:17PM EST
Reply to: [deleted]
Beautiful track racing bike made by Kestrel , Talon , Its made of poly racin , shamano gears, well kepted bike, with extra bottle holders for those long run for more info 917 701 [deleted] Please no haglers , Price out this bike first before calling , this bike goes for over $ 2,500 This is a true marathone bike very light weight.
Clearly, before people realized that those bikes the West Indian community was commuting on would also work well in velodromes (velodromes existed before track racing and were originally used for storing grain), they experimented with other types of bikes instead. Here's how an early track racing bike looked:
It also inspired me to explore the origins of other cycling disciplines, particularly cyclocross. According to that cartoon, "hipsters" are now languidly contemplating taking up cyclocross, so I wanted to understand more about who came up with it in the first place. What I've discovered so far is amazing. Originally, I thought cyclocross was an age-old form of Mongolian horsemanship only recently adapted for bicycles, but it turns out that Lance Armstrong was doing what would eventually become "cyclocross" as early as 2003:
As for the remaining cycling disciplines, everybody knows they were all born in Portland within the last five years, and the accompanying bicycles were invented and fabricated by Sacha White.
Incidentally, the film appears to be shot in Red Hook, Brooklyn. If you're unfamiliar with Brooklyn, Red Hook is sort of like Williamsburg's basement in that it's a "rugged" (it only has like five bars) out-of-the-way place where "hipsters" and their ilk go to work on their dubious artistic endeavors, and you should be wary of anything emerging from it. At any rate, in the video, some guy who looks like he listens to jam bands drives up in what appears to be like a 1990 Toyota Camry (or maybe it's a Corolla), or, more likely, his friend or girlfriend's 1990 Toyota Camry or Corolla:
Whether it's a Camry or a Corolla however is largely immaterial, since either way it's awful casting and few cars evoke the evils of the automobile less effectively than old maroon Corollas and Camrys. Next, the guy ejects his Gov't Mule cassette, pops the trunk, and removes a hybrid with a pie plate on it:
Then, he acts like he's going to push a perfectly good Corolla or Camry (with the E-Z Pass still stuck to the windshield) into New York Harbor:
Cunningly, though, the filmmakers employ "trick photography" by substituting a toy car, though presumably even losing that will push the project way over budget, because they've tied a piece of string around it so that they can retrieve it:
Finally, the jam band fan removes his bongwater-stained flannel, turns around to reveal a "One Less Car" t-shirt, and walks over to his hybrid, which he will almost certainly pedal over to Valentino Pier where he will attempt to strike up a game of hacky-sack:
Then, it closes with a quote from the schluffer:
What offends me most about this video is that it's called "Revolution" yet I'm sure the most revolutionary act the filmmaker committed was running a bunch of errands with the Camry after the shoot, racking up a huge charge on the E-Z Pass, and then failing to fill up the tank before returning the car to his girlfriend. (It's still perfectly acceptable to wear a "One Less Car" t-shirt and drive every day as long as you borrow the car and never pay for gas.) They could have at least smashed a derelict car in a junkyard like Henry Rollins. And what is a "livability revolution?" It sounds like forcing people at gunpoint to make their living rooms more comfortable.
I guess we're drowning in a flood of mildness and "revolution" is the latest word to be dissolved.
boulder rules!
ReplyDeleteYeas 3
ReplyDeletefIRST ONES HERE, FIRST ONES HERE!
ReplyDeletetop ten
ReplyDeletetop ten
ReplyDeleteThis comment has been removed by the author.
ReplyDeletetop ten?
ReplyDeleteSeriously, all I want is my photo taken with some dolphins.
ReplyDeleteMissed the podium. Damn these wool socks.
ReplyDeleteSnob,
ReplyDeleteIsn't it about time to revise the Pistadex, in favor of a more accurate description of the times: the "Langsterdex"?
Seriously, just go to CL and search on Langster. It feel like opening the front door of a bike-orphanage.
henry rollins baby
ReplyDeletedamn! 13?
ReplyDeleteThose flapper-spats would be excellent at keeping your shoes dry while pissing in the woods.
ReplyDeleteAlso, thanks for freaking me out again with that Beloki crash. I think about that every time I descend...
top 20!
ReplyDeletegiro to DC
...fucking great...back to carrying water bottles...must be monday...
ReplyDeletePoor Joseba - he's lucky he's alive especially since he hit the back of his head.
ReplyDeletewho knew that track bikes originally had caliper brakes?
ReplyDeleteEverybody knows that before the Jamaican bobsled team there was the Jamaican track bike team.
ReplyDeleteThat's why they called them "track"; it was in honor of some great runners who tripped an fell in the Olympic qualifier and decided to take up bike riding to console themselves.
bsnyc asks: Was the track bike invented in the Caribbean and sold to people before they departed for the US, or was it designed by the City of New York and then given to them on arrival?
ReplyDeleteNo, I think that was the banjo.
You need all that hydration for those 6-day races on your marathone track bike.
ReplyDeleteSnob,
ReplyDeleteActually, the original TdF bikes in the 1800's must have been chainless shaft-drive safety bicycles, rather than p-fars. P-fars has already been adopted for urban messenging (is that a word?), and were also used for skidding and other assorted tricks.
top 100 baby!!
ReplyDeleteback in the game
Jclev19, you may be on to something. Almost all fixie tricks are lame-o, but I would love to see someone do barspinnz on a P-far.
ReplyDeleteThose Shamano parts make the Kestrel mighty tempting. Fake-arse stuff, but possessed of a mystical power.
ReplyDeleteI once had a SHRAP calculator that was always a pleasure to use.
Hank should let the hair grow again. He seems just a little more convincing that way.
ReplyDeleteSomewhere a very sad tri-dork is exiting a porta-potty, the chammy cream cooling in his shorts, and wondering, "where's the illiterate bastard who stole my Kestrel?"
ReplyDeletewishiwasmerckx-
ReplyDeleteThanks for that thought. There are indeed p-far trick videos coursing through the tubes of the internets thanks to the google.
Haven't seen the "tail-whip" just yet, though.
incidentally, lance armstrong also created the proto-stutter-step
ReplyDeleteAs a Frenchman, I regularly curate revolution culture collabos. Is that OK?
ReplyDeleteIf I had a sweet pair of vintage Wilson Prostaff tennis shoes, I'd totally want a pair of Sackville Mudflappers too.
ReplyDeletewait just a bloody minute, ya limeys!!!
ReplyDeleteYou claim 26" wheel size and 700c tyres. Also, what kind of 14 year olds are you growing? The kinds that fit just fine on a 59cm bike?
America, watch out, they are growing an army of huge teenagers!!
Snob - PLEASE stop talking about this cyclocross thing. You have an enviable influence in cycling culture and I worry that we'll soon have to deal with a bunch of skin-suited hipters running single ring setups after hearing about it via your "gateway."
ReplyDeleteThose caribbean guys must've been real visionaries, inventing a bike for the purpose of a race that had still to be invented...taking palce in grain-silos...of all things!
ReplyDeleteCyclocross!
ReplyDeleteTrack Bikes for West Indies Immigrants!
LANCE!!!!
Pie Plate!
Black Flag!
Yep, we gots ourselves another great BSNYC post!
I love cycling, and I love commuting by bike. 2 thoughts on "biking rules". It is annoying to have a contest celebrating how great you are. They were really, really bad.
ReplyDeleteOhh Snobby old toyotaz are a perfectly adequate way to give bikes a ride.. i got a corolla dx right outta college and a retrotec, both of which malfunctioned now and again, but i paid about twice as much for the retrotec.. still going, my brother raced it a sswc09, i raced it in stockholm, not so sure where the toyoyo is ..
ReplyDeleteLA even does a "run down" during the cyclecross invention - and runs right in front of about 10 descending riders. Was he also trying to invent Rollerball?
ReplyDeleteSnob, obviously the "livability revolution" is the subversive movement of maoist feng shui practioners. They ride bikes at night, silently gliding through the city, ready to break in and redecorate your apartment.
ReplyDeleteHow the fuck did the DIYer get a completely assembled bike to fit in that trunk full of crap on his compact car? I had a small car for 2 years and had to take both wheels off and still hope to not get a chainring in the back of the head on a hard stop.
ReplyDeletehttp://losangeles.craigslist.org/wst/bik/1478398240.html
ReplyDeleteAs bad as the Brit ad is, I think there was some truth to the bit about New York's West Indian community popularizing track bikes for street transportation way back in the day.
ReplyDeleteThose mudflap spats look like they may have solar cells built into them, so you can charge your light while riding in the rain.
ReplyDeleteWTFR VNDL
Cyclocross is so 2008. The future is snowcross racing.
I'm trying to book a poetry event wherein William Shattner reads the collected works of Henry Rollins.
ReplyDeleteI can understand why you don't want to dump a car into NY Harbor to support a PSA on environmental impact.(Especially that being New York City and all, there are probably two dead bodies in the trunk.)But you could at least buy some fishing line to retrieve the toy car from Davy Jones Locker. It doesn't show up on film if the scene is lit properly.
ReplyDeleteAnd here's how those crafty Limeys did it: find Chinese bicycle manufacturers in a Karaoke bar. So that's where the Japanese picked it up.
ReplyDeleteTDF was also the start of bike catapult.
ReplyDeleteLater perfected by Frank Schleck in Switzerland. Investigation revealed he hit a discarded Toblerone bar on the road.
Note in Schleck's crash, the crabon frame retains its integrity.
ReplyDeleteI'm trying to book a poetry event wherein William Shatner (Sp!)reads the collected works of Henry Rollins.
ReplyDeleteOh, you can try, but you can't beat this.
I am [i]so[/i] incorporating flappy-spats into my vocab. Not sure yet what I'll have it mean.
ReplyDeleteGah!
ReplyDeleteCC - just realized what your new pic was. nice.
ReplyDelete...btw...armstrong did a much better remount for the "real deal" than the guy in that hokey vid...
ReplyDelete...very informative post bsnyc/rtms...the murky history of cycling was never so clear as now...
I think if you want a good deal on a crabon fibre road bike with "Shamano" parts these days, you just need to ask your friendly neighborhood pizza/chinese/filet mignon delivery guy in NYC. The one the other night had a Trek crabon all gaffer-taped up. He said he paid $50. Usually when I ask they say the bike isn't theirs or that they just borrowed it or something, but this guy seemed proud of his.
ReplyDeleteAn open letter to Paul Steely White:
ReplyDeleteDear Mr. White:
I must deplore the callous mistreatment of the flannel shirt in the Best DIY Video honored by your organization.
The flinging of said garment to the ground did nothing to advance the story line.
It was a gratuitous act of littering inserted only for its shock value.
I trust you will think long and hard about whether that is an appropriate message to send our young people.
Harrummph.
This post is fucking hilarious. Thanx for the laughs.
ReplyDeleteI recall cross bike being pretty darn popular with some Seattle couriers in 2000-2001. The track bikes took over by the time the CMWC came to town in 2003.
But, what do I know. I'm willing to submit to this revisionist history, as it's far more convenient a story to tell.
Still LOL.
if you're getting rid of the car to save the planet or polar bears or whatever, why t.f. do you dump it in the harbor? Isn't that bad? The shirt should read "One more chemical spill."
ReplyDeletearrgghhh
I'm trying to book a poetry event wherein William Shatner (Sp!) reads the collected works of Henry Rollins.
ReplyDeleteOh, you can try, but you can't beat this.
Or this.
Henry Rollins reading poetry mimics Shatner anyway.
ReplyDeleteFirst, I got to the, "velodromes existed before track racing and were originally used for storing grain," and finally had an answer as to why Seattle replaced the velodrome at Greenlake with a 3-hole Golf range.
ReplyDeleteThen, I got to the anatomy of a track bike and nearly spat out my epic burrito.
Magnificent!
I would love to see that thing in action in the Madison race!
Question, though: how do the Smart Cars handle the Kierin? You get DQ'd if you pass the moto.
Rollins is such a putz.
ReplyDeletemikeweb 1:54-
ReplyDeleteMaybe we can also credit LA with invention of the first, official bike shoal?
Uh-Oh, I better consult the Snobtionary first.
I hope that if Xtranormal/State animation software is part of a product placement scheme, you're making a mint off it. Because that stuff is suddenly everywhere at once and I hold you responsible. You're like bedbugs in NYC hotels, but for memes on the interwebs.
ReplyDeleteMarathone was the elastomeric compound Girvin developed specifically for the West Indian track bike cyclocross scene.
ReplyDeleteoutstanding.
ReplyDeletewell, i'm off to buy a Kestrel.
So does this new revelation of history mean that we now know that Eek a Mouse was riding a track bike on his famous bike ride, immortalized in his song Peeni Willi?
ReplyDeletehttp://new.music.yahoo.com/eek-a-mouse/tracks/peeni-walli--217426816
I would also like to point out that the CL ad states that the red bike is 'a true marathone machine."
ReplyDeleteYou RUN a marathon. Bikes are in no way involved. 26.2 miles RUNNING. Aw yeah.
...OnTheDick said...
ReplyDelete..."well, i'm off to buy a Kestrel."...
...why ???...just steal it like that guy obviously did...
...oh, i get it...it's a karma thingy, right ???...i understand...
I guess Billy Bragg was right.
ReplyDeleteThe revolution is only a T-shirt away..
"velodromes existed before track racing and were originally used for storing grain."
ReplyDeleteWrong. The Aztecs made velodromes way before that to hold guacamole during their annual festivals in which tortilla chips were distributed to the all the people. The first guacamole was made of avocado, tomato, garlic, lemon juice and ground-up virgins. Conquistadors later added sour creme.
Commie-
ReplyDeleteWatch the movie "Free Enterprise" if for no other reason than to see Shatner doing a hip-hop version of Julius Ceasar.
oh screw it... here it is
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yerCiByca4
I like that the PSA contest Best Image is titled "Left Turn" and shows a bunch of riders signaling a right turn.
ReplyDeleteIt's "One Car Fewer" or "Fewer Cars, By One"
ReplyDeleteFucking j-school grads.
What are these "track bikes" you all keep making reference to? Do you mean tarck bikes?
ReplyDeleteAnd if gears were invented in the 1900's, then time catapulted thousands of years back to when people started using them, shouldn't they have been invented by the 1800's, thus making them available for the TDF? Or did they maybe lack the 1.21 giggawats of electricity necessary to make the return trip to modern time, thus leaving them ripe for re-invention?
I can't believe I'm the first to praise this:
ReplyDelete"Armstrong...became the first person in the history of the world to dismount and remount a carbon road bike without stopping for coffee and muffins..."
Priceless!
...leanardo da fucking vinci invented the fixed gear track bike...
ReplyDelete...smart as he was, it was more or less a matter of time, not intelligence which left his resume devoid of a multiple gear ratio changing device for the early roadies...
...smart cookie but busy motherfucker...
at least nobody disputes that evil knievel invented mt biking in his bath tub in 1967
ReplyDeleteman, that shatner dude gots massive street cred.
ReplyDeleteAh, the Sunday People.....buying loads of cheap tat to sell to a gullible public (if they're selling for £199, what did they pay for them and how little did they cost to manufacture?).
ReplyDeleteUnneccesary apostrophe in "BMX's", I see.
It's not representative of things over here, honestly....
A (Scottish) nonny mouse...
Anon 4:14-
ReplyDeletehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_signals
Does TransAlt not know that these signals are well established forms of communication? There are two instances of this error - the photo you point out, and the "eyes" psa video. Where the biker (not cyclist) signals with the arm bent at a 90deg angle and then turns in that direction.
This is bound to cause an accident for someone down the road...
ant 2nd
ReplyDeleteback from the dark side
anon 6:38 -
ReplyDeleteIt seems self-defeating to have those who want to educate the public fail so often at creating the educational materials? I guess they need more and/or better volunteers over at Transit Alternatives.
Reminds me of a helmet safety poster issued that had a kid wearing their helmet backwards.
It must be a tradition in that safety education business.
Flappy Spats remind me of boots with metatarsal guards but I want that fringe on my loafers extended instead with a sole-stiffener.
For now I'll make some Flappy Spats with little clips and I'll affix some split rings to my shoe eyelets.
Hmm... good name for a drink.
Thanks for the laughs, BSNYC!
everbody knows bikes were invented by the mormans when they invaded spain
ReplyDeleteus mooslims gotta sticks together
everbody knows the bikes was invented when the mormans invaded spain
ReplyDeleteaw shut the hell up rikim
ReplyDeletePie plate and a kick stand ! !! !!!
ReplyDeleteThose PSA's are all quite horrific. Kudos to you, Snob, for not voting for them. I enjoy your Bicycling Mag posts, they seem a bit out of place, but give readers a small glimpse of reality. Its a nice break from reading about the new Assos bibs or the economy clinchers for $2200. There has to be a middle ground somewhere, and I think you are helping.
ReplyDeleteI like your work, but I miss Style Man.
Ha! I ain't fallin' fer that ol' line.
ReplyDeletethis gal dern possum tried to eat my cooch when i passed out the uther nite you know the one that lives unner the dodge duster it werent that much bettern red uster be
ReplyDeleteDrowning in a flood of mildness?
ReplyDeleteNo way!
This weekend, I independently invented dismounting and remounting a road bike without stopping for coffee and a muffin.
It was at the Bunbury Coffee Shop in Piermont.
And all I had was a double espresso.
Who's wild now, huh?
But it's obvious why Bunbury sells a lot of bran products. Everyone in lycra in the place was eligible for an AARP card.
Oh well, if you're over the hill and enjoyed the ride, you may as well do hill repeats.
Do you hear that high pitch grinding sound? Its Major Taylor spinning in his grave at the thought of a hello kitty top tube pad on a "track bike". Oh the humanity!
ReplyDeleteThere is only one Lone Wolf.
ReplyDeleteI really thought they pushed that fuckin Tercel in the Harbor. I wanted to see how they were going to pull it out with that stupid fuckin string.
ReplyDeletebemoaning one fashion layered incorrectly over another is missing the point.
ReplyDeleteAll styles and fashions are inherently empty.
After seeing the Toyota get dumped in the Harbor, I had to go outside in my robe and check on my Subaru.
ReplyDeleteSet up for a hundred.
ReplyDeletethe snob critiques...some "get it" and so are now eligible themselves to look down on others. But when you are laughing at a pair of brake levers, you are really only laughing at your own weak mind.
ReplyDeleteanon1232
ReplyDeleteNice century.
Quite douchey.
ReplyDeletegreat info thanks for sharing it.
ReplyDeleteRevisionists all.
ReplyDeleteIncas my ass.
The greeks invented the veldrome to kill the english in.
One thing though, no hating on the Rivendell guys, those elves make some kick ass bikes, and those portland guys do make a great bottle opener.
Felt still makes shit.
At least the Revolution video had a link to a Spaceman 3 video. I liked that.
ReplyDeleteBike Snob: I've missed my BSNYC. Did i see BS mentioned in Dan Brown's latest? The Lost Symbol?
ReplyDeleteAllbest, Ken Akron
o O (Sweet, revising history, this is my big chance to be the first person to drill little holes in my chain-rings, saving grams and sparking a fad to drill holes in every part of a bicycle that we think needs holes drilled into)
ReplyDelete...yeah !!!...ist !!! again...
ReplyDelete...oh, really...ya mean those dumb shoe fender thingys were here yesterday & i screwed it up again ???...
ha, good one bgw, rings a bit too close to home as I have mistaken this for a new post about 5 times. i'm stupid.
ReplyDelete...sheesh, hillbilly...two mornings in a row...thought i was a star but turns out i'm just a water carrier...
ReplyDelete...& that pesky hinault, who really has nothing better to do, thrills in throwing me of the podium...
you'll show em...
ReplyDeleteyou've obviously been shunned from every bar in red hook. with good reason, i'd wager.
ReplyDeleteHe got rid of the car because it refused to play any more Massive Attack.
ReplyDeleteAs a judge in the contest, I will say to you Mr. Bike Snob the DIY contest had very few entries. If you didn't vote for Revolution, which I liked, one has to wonder what you did for, it was easily the weakest. So I guess you like to vote for crap.
ReplyDeleteI can't believe that "Safety" video won. I gather the producers were going for a crappy '70's educational video effect, but they succeeded too well. I was bored the minute it started. Gah.
ReplyDeleteThe real sad thing about the whole Sexy ad is that it was going to be an infomercial where Billy Mayes would announce the colourways...
ReplyDeleteThanks for featuring my bike! I knew it was only a matter of time. <333
ReplyDeleteКлассные мультики мультфильм на кинозоуне.
ReplyDeleteэлектронная почта без регистрации
I didn't read your whole blog, but you're cycling history time line made me giggle.... You might want to fix it up a little bit......... Just.. just a little bit...
ReplyDeleteCara Mengobati Wasir Stadium 4 Cara Mengobati Wasir Stadium 4 Tanpa Operasi Cara Mengatasi Wasir Stadium 4 Cara Penyembuhan Wasir Stadium 4 Cara Mengobati Ambeien Stadium 4 Secara Alami Cara Pengobatan Wasir Stadium 4 Cara Pengobatan Ambeien Stadium 4 Cara Mengobati Wasir Stadium 3 Dan 4 Cara Mengobati Wasir Stadium 3 Cara Mengobati Wasir Stadium 3 Secara Alami Cara Mengobati Wasir Stadium 3 Dan 4 Cara Mengatasi Wasir Stadium 3 Cara Mengobati Ambeien Stadium 3 Tanpa Operasi Cara Menyembuhkan Wasir Stadium 3 Cara Mengatasi Ambeien Stadium 3 Cara Alami Mengobati Wasir Stadium 3 Cara Mengobati Ambeien Stadium 3 Secara Alami Obat wasir luar stadium 4 Obat tradisional ambeien stadium 4 Obat herbal untuk wasir stadium 4 Obat untuk ambeien stadium 4 Obat alami ambeien stadium 4 Cara pengobatan wasir stadium 4 Obat ampuh ambeien stadium 4 Obat untuk wasir stadium 4 Obat wasir stadium 4 Obat wasir stadium 4 tanpa operasi Obat tradisional wasir stadium 4 Obat herbal wasir stadium 4 Obat alami wasir stadium 4
ReplyDelete