tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post5419212583699934319..comments2024-03-18T07:59:30.743-04:00Comments on Bike Snob NYC: Cycling American Style: Vehicular Cycling in the Land of Make-BelieveBikeSnobNYChttp://www.blogger.com/profile/11256142855437740163noreply@blogger.comBlogger195125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-27718167367127214402013-04-18T11:13:46.929-04:002013-04-18T11:13:46.929-04:00Why are people afraid of calling things by their n...Why are people afraid of calling things by their name? a bike lane is clearly a ghetto for cyclists. Built so that the public roads that the motorist think is theirs are kept free of road users they don't like. Why is this so difficult to understand? Many times I have been yelled at by a motorist who thinks I should be in "my place", even on roads with low speed limit, two lanes for each way, very little traffic and with plenty of room to pass. But of course a bike lane next to it which I ignored. That's what a bike lane causes, more yelling. That is proof of the real purpose of bike lanes. Otherwise why would they care where I ride?superkaosnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-18402129733596868632012-11-05T07:22:54.922-05:002012-11-05T07:22:54.922-05:00While you understandably have a good time making f...While you understandably have a good time making fun of cycling in a vehicular manor, in many place it's either that or don't ride at all. And, the techniques promulgated by vehicular cycling work, so why all the hate? The fact is, that if you ride a bike for any length of time and ever venture out of the city, at some point (probably quite quickly) you will have to ride your bike on a road without any bike-specific infrastructure - not even a shoulder. It's much safer to ride conspicuously and several feet out into the road (depending on lane width) than it is to hug the edge of the road. Many more overtaking motorists will SLOW DOWN to pass you and wait until it's safe to pass if you are restricting the lane width available to them. If you ride far-right, say 6" of the edge or even on the white fog line, motorists will attempt to pass you IN THE LANE YOU ARE IN without slowing down or moving over. As a road user, you have the right to the lane. Take it.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-66956387902071641542012-07-02T13:46:16.723-04:002012-07-02T13:46:16.723-04:00Thanks for the advise Manhattan BridgeThanks for the advise Manhattan BridgeRoberthttp://www.solebicycles.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-59583454893306938062012-03-15T02:03:58.404-04:002012-03-15T02:03:58.404-04:00You'll have no need of that tool with meYou'll have no need of that tool with meNationwide Auto Loanhttp://www.nationwideautoloanfinancing.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-37347583362018283682012-03-14T10:20:54.222-04:002012-03-14T10:20:54.222-04:00Horse pie! I used to ride in the ghetto and damn n...Horse pie! I used to ride in the ghetto and damn near got killed every day. When I started taking my lane the ass munches honked their horns in frilustration but I found they stopped gambling with my life quite so much :oP make the fuckers slow down and go around I say >:o(Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-43551984127685959372012-03-14T02:16:35.641-04:002012-03-14T02:16:35.641-04:00These vehicular cyclists huge pains in the ass her...These vehicular cyclists huge pains in the ass here in San Diego. Any other city want them?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-35163044370226597812012-03-13T17:43:41.055-04:002012-03-13T17:43:41.055-04:00In the absence of bike lanes, when you ride all th...In the absence of bike lanes, when you ride all the way to the right you are inviting traffic to drive past you as close as they dare. You are telling drivers that you have no right to be there, so they have no obligation to share the road, and no obligation not to hit you. You declare that you are at best, just something in their way.<br />Being rear ended or otherwise hit when taking the lane is far less likely to happen than being sideswiped when you cling to the right-most edge of the road.<br />It's also the best way to be visible. As was said earlier, I'd would rather be SEEN and thought an asshole, than NOT SEEN and killed.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-68660609243977727122012-03-13T17:17:48.119-04:002012-03-13T17:17:48.119-04:00bike lanes are great. increases ridership, increas...bike lanes are great. increases ridership, increases safety, accessible for cyclists of varying comfort levels, yay.<br />as for fears of "taking the lane", how often are riders hit in the bike lane, or cutoff by turning vehicles, doored, cabs swerving to pick up a fare, bike lanes occupied by people/carts/ double parked cars/cop cars etc...bike lanes aren't a fix-all.<br />bad drivers can get you wherever you ride.<br />and if you commute, chances are a bike lane won't bring you all the way to your destination, some portion of your trip will be outside of a bike lane. so you'll need to keep yourself safe the best way you can, whatever that may be. i find riding conspicuously and confidently as an engaged and aware component of the road works really well. but whatever floats one's boat. and of course i do support more bike lanes.<br />youguysarethebestAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-56669116743326326422012-03-13T16:00:41.677-04:002012-03-13T16:00:41.677-04:00Bike Snob and others give me shit for my mirror e...Bike Snob and others give me shit for my mirror emphasis, but I know of no other way to address concerns such as that expressed by James above:<br /><br /><i>But having ridden that way in several states, I've been harassed and threatened so many times...</i><br /><br />We will not have total separation in our lifetimes. That means no matter how successful those efforts are, most of us will have to travel on roads for most of our cycling time. The only effective method I know to reduce and practically eliminate undesirable reaction from motorists involves using a mirror as I discussed above. <br /><br />The main point is that a mirror allows for you to extend your situational awareness rearward, which means you can notice and address potential contention with motorists approaching from behind with plenty of time and space to nip it in the bud well before it escalates to road rage. <br /><br />The method rests on the presumption that most of the frustration motorists have with cyclists in the lane up ahead stems not from the cyclist being "in the way", but the cyclist being <i>oblivious</i> to being "in the way". With a mirror, it's easy to learn how to behave in a way that makes it clear you're not oblivious, and that you're being cooperative. They appreciate that.<br /><br />This working hypothesis is validated every time I'm on my bike by the experience of pleasant driver behavior like waves, safe passes, nods and smiles rather than honks, middle fingers and buzz passes.Serge Issakovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-17026389980033196212012-03-13T14:51:52.714-04:002012-03-13T14:51:52.714-04:00I'm all for nice safe separated paths with gra...I'm all for nice safe separated paths with grade separated intersections, etc., whereever there is space for them to be built practically. <br /><br />Bike lanes and cycle tracks seem to create more problems than they solve, especially at intersections. The best you can do is have separate phases for bicyclists on the cycle track, but that only works at intersections with traffic signal controls, and increases time spent at each such intersection for everyone.<br /><br />There does seem to be some correlation between infrastructure and modal usage. Causation is another matter, and far from proven.<br /><br />More likely what is at play is cultural acceptance - and the role infrastructure plays there is primarily iconic.<br /><br />That's why I suggest plastering San Diego (or any city willing to experiment) with sharrows and BMUFL signs - those will also serve as icons to the acceptance of cycling - and in particular the acceptance of cycling on the roads (as opposed to bike lanes and cycle tracks which express the acceptance of cycling as long as it's not on the road, or at least not on the part of the road that is "for cars" - which is more motoring advocacy than bicycling advocacy, in my view).Serge Issakovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-62896263344517314252012-03-13T11:15:14.489-04:002012-03-13T11:15:14.489-04:00Nice to see the lane open
Benjamin Raucher
Benjam...Nice to see the lane open<br /><br />Benjamin Raucher<br />Benjamin RaucherBenjamin Marcus Raucherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00006891069454386067noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-2492493501758440022012-03-12T23:50:00.991-04:002012-03-12T23:50:00.991-04:00Serge, I take the full lane (unless there's a ...Serge, I take the full lane (unless there's a bike lane), and also worry that our right to the road will erode with separation. But having ridden that way in several states, I've been harassed and threatened so many times, I don't expect bike usage to expand that way--and that's been the default way for many decades, with a poor showing for bike commuting. Agreed: gas taxes and other disincentives to driving are crucial. But studies of occasional and potential bikers show that their perception of the the safety of biking is the main factor in how willing they are to ride (as does common sense). My kids bike commute every day, and I taught them to take the lane when needed--but if they need to do that, I recommend they get off the bike and walk it to a safer street. Do you have your kids commute the same way you do, on similar roads?Jameshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10633151842674484372noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-46436852057557215442012-03-12T22:31:55.077-04:002012-03-12T22:31:55.077-04:00I didn't know VC was still worth discussing. 1...I didn't know VC was still worth discussing. 1) There is a direct correlation between the amount a city spends on cycling and the bicycle modeshare. Don't say the Netherlands has a high modeshre because driving is too inconvenient or expensive. Driving and operating a car in London is very expensive yet they still have horribly low bike modeshare. Conversely owning and operating a car is cheaper in Portland than in London yet Portland has a higher modeshare.<br /><br />2) Rather than giving up on bicycle facilities because they are substandard, wouldn't we lobby for better facilities? Here in LA we were told we were getting a 5' bike lane. LACBC told everyone to support it. BikesideLA argued that 5ft was still to much in the door-zone. Thanks to BikesideLA we ended up getting 5.5ft bike lane and in other parts it was placed out of the door-zone. We need to fight for what we want, not settle for less or sharing with motorists.Syzlaknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-7161457440411963102012-03-12T18:10:34.239-04:002012-03-12T18:10:34.239-04:00GETTING MORE PEOPLE ON BIKES:
I'm a big propon...GETTING MORE PEOPLE ON BIKES:<br />I'm a big proponent of sharrows, which are all over San Francisco now.<br /><br />I would like sharrows in the rightmost lane of every road in San Diego, coupled with "Bikes May Use Full Lane" signs - I bet that would increase cycling more than anything else... at a fraction of the cost. You can sharrow/BMUFL miles of roads for a few thousand bucks... cycletracks are over a million dollars per mile these days (some paths are pushing $5M/mile). It's just not realistic to believe anything else will work in the foreseeable future.<br /><br />MAKING CYCLING SAFER:<br />Nothing can increase cycling safety like making cyclists more aware of how much influence they have on their own safety by adopting safe practices... this is the tried and proven method for pilots and defensive drivers - I see no reason why it can't work for cyclists, and it's what I practice and advocate.Serge Issakovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-10028254035819830122012-03-12T03:54:24.498-04:002012-03-12T03:54:24.498-04:00This will be my last response:
1. I do not assume...This will be my last response:<br /><br />1. I do not assume that there are no accidents in places like Amsterdam. Yet, there are more cyclists, and it is safer. I don't have any ratios here but I am sure you can look it up and have the math tell you the story. <br /><br />2. I know what controlling the lane is, and I have done it much as your video shows, just as others have attested to have done. I don't see what your point is. Having been a commuter by bike for 4 years would be enough for most people to have made that leap of faith.<br /><br />3. Cyclist are marginalized because, as mentioned before, roads are built for cars, cyclist are not people in cars. <br /><br />4. VC will not stop the marginalization of cyclists on the road. Why? See #3.<br /><br />Look what I found by searching on the internet for 30 seconds.<br /><br />http://www.bikesbelong.org/resources/stats-and-research/statistics/safety-statistics/<br /><br />http://www.aaafoundation.org/pdf/bikeuse_PBA.pdf<br /><br />http://www.nytimes.com/2011/07/04/nyregion/number-of-female-cyclists-lags-in-new-york-with-safety-as-a-concern.html?pagewanted=all<br /><br />The cycling community-at least in SF-is focused on both safety and getting more people on bikes.<br /><br />Not seeing how you are addressing either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-35843560171352020362012-03-12T02:23:19.391-04:002012-03-12T02:23:19.391-04:00Oops, that was the link via facebook. Here is the...Oops, that was the link via facebook. Here is the link direct to youtube.<br /><br />http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=UIMgy4jTqjYSerge Issakovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-39416591518094610572012-03-12T02:22:02.294-04:002012-03-12T02:22:02.294-04:00Finally about a little footage of lane control in ...Finally about a little footage of lane control in NYC. Of course it's shot by the cyclist's helmet cam, so you can't see the bike itself, except for a brief moment in a shadow.<br /><br />Here is a link of one minute of video demonstrating lane control in the Bronx.<br /><br />http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DUIMgy4jTqjY&h=uAQG7YdisAQEGn3YBHMuWBkniM8JjoPBAO6a1pMlS95kHkA<br /><br />I'm not saying this is preferable to riding on some quaint path along a brook. I'm saying it's possible, and it's preferable to not riding, and also preferable to trying to share those lanes.Serge Issakovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-78209558297125046702012-03-12T00:57:32.119-04:002012-03-12T00:57:32.119-04:00You seem to assume that "the philosophy of Cy...You seem to assume that "the philosophy of Cycling Infrastructure" results in cyclists not being hit by cars. That would be true in a utopia in which all motor vehicle travel is underground, but in the real world true segregation like that is not practically possible, because of intersections. Some are addressed by separate grade crossings or special traffic signal phases, but the vast majority can't be.<br /><br />I don't know what exactly you mean by "the philosophy of vehicular cycling", but to me it is about increasing societal acceptance of bicyclist driver rights in general, and particularly in the area of lane rights. <br /><br />Lane rights - having right of way in the lane so those behind must yield or change lanes to pass - are not questioned for anyone else. Why for bicyclists?<br /><br />My biggest concern is that we will be more and more marginalized until we're barely accepted or legally allowed on the roads, while infrastructure remains far worse that even what Amsterdam has today.Serge Issakovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-2567193879256972232012-03-10T19:41:56.770-05:002012-03-10T19:41:56.770-05:00Just read through all the posts.
I've been a ...Just read through all the posts.<br /><br />I've been a commuter via bicycle for about 4 years, in places with and without bike lanes. <br /><br />In OC, little infrastructure exists. <br /><br />SF is a lot better in that sense.<br /><br />THE CONSENSUS-my take-is as follows:<br /><br />*VC is something cyclists should know. If the gov't meaningfully invested in cycling as transportation, it would be a FACET of what is taught.<br /><br />**VC as a philosophy of bike riding will never become mainstream. If relied on as a replacement for gov't investment, there will be no cyclists on the road. <br /><br />***The philosophies of VC and Cycling infrastructure are not competitive: it is very much like the creation vs. evolution, global warming vs not global warming<br /><br />Cyclists know it only takes one car to not see them to have extremely negative consequences.<br /><br />Cyclists are not cars. <br /><br />Roads are build now for cars. <br /><br />CheersAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-61265374447331995552012-03-10T18:22:22.297-05:002012-03-10T18:22:22.297-05:00Billy said:
Vehicular cycling has been dominant in...<b>Billy</b> said:<br /><i>Vehicular cycling has been dominant in the cycling advocacy world for the past 30 years, and the result has been the effective banning of cycling in the streets. Less than 1% mode share is fewer people than break the speed limit or smoke pot, things that are *actually* illegal... Argue all you like about correlation and causation, but vehicular cycling had 30 years to make a difference, and none was made.</i><br /><br />No, the government's program of encouraging and sometimes requiring incompetent bikeway cycling has been dominant in the cycling advocacy world for the past several decades. Bicycle drivers have been a tiny minority. While the government and the bicycle advocates have been trying to effectively ban cycling in the streets, lawful competent bicycle drivers have resisted those constraints through law and engineering and education.<br /><br /><b>Billy</b> said:<br /><i>Can we all accept the fact that vehicular cycling has *not* worked to "tame" motorists and encourage anyone outside the lunatic fringe to ride a bicycle for perfectly ordinary 2-5 mile trips?</i><br /><br />Lawful competent bicycle driving has not been implemented in any large-scale program, so we can't say that such a program has ever been tried and either worked or not. We know the method "works" for all the individuals that adopt it. Its aim (if there is any beside simple effectiveness) is empowerment, not directly encouragement.<br /><br /><b>Billy</b> said:<br /><i>It's only in the past 5 years when vehicular cycling has taken a back seat to the League of American Bicyclists' five Es, in particular the Engineering aspect, that cycling mode share has increased and there's been a renaissance of sorts.</i><br /><br />The LAB has six Es. Lots of people (including LAB staff and leadership) forget Equity. And the LAB began drifting well more than five years ago, away from defending and supporting lawful competent bicycle drivers.Bob Sutterfieldhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03884604594183659165noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-22131696713444097152012-03-10T12:59:27.421-05:002012-03-10T12:59:27.421-05:00True, except the stuff about using a mirror to mai...True, except the stuff about using a mirror to maintain rearward situational awareness for communication and positioning purposes - blame or praise - is all on me.<br /><br />I developed it because it's the only way I could effectively practice Franklin's (Cyclecraft) primary/secondary riding position method (which is awesome for getting safe and comfortable in all kinds of traffic conditions) in serious traffic, though he himself mostly eschews mirror use.Serge Issakovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-68121758525625551082012-03-10T12:52:40.984-05:002012-03-10T12:52:40.984-05:00Long Beach has thrown some money for special facil...Long Beach has thrown some money for special facilities on some streets. It still helps a great deal to learn to ride safely and comfortably in any kind of traffic to get between most any two places in Long Beach. That will remain so until they ban bikes from the roads as they already have in much of ballyhooed Europe. That's advocating for bicyclists in some people's view.Serge Issakovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-66615399853868181652012-03-10T12:38:41.218-05:002012-03-10T12:38:41.218-05:00Indeed, the next street over from La Jolla Village...Indeed, the next street over from La Jolla Village Drive is Nobel - a designated bike route and more popular for east/west travel by bicyclists in the area. It has lovely bike lanes that guide cyclists going straight through intersections to ride to the right of the rightmost lane that allows right turning as well as straight traffic.<br /><br />http://maps.google.com/maps?q=nobel+at+lebon,+92037&hl=en&ll=32.866593,-117.216976&spn=0.010471,0.018947&sll=32.842087,-117.269241&sspn=0.010474,0.018947&hnear=Nobel+Dr+%26+Lebon+Dr,+San+Diego,+California+92122&t=m&z=16&layer=c&cbll=32.866642,-117.217126&panoid=exG0gMwRXukbzO5-hEBxhg&cbp=12,116.24,,0,22.29&source=gplus-ogsb<br /><br />At least they got rid of the door zone bike lanes it used to have further west where curbside parking is allowed. It also has more frequent traffic lights than LJVD.<br /><br />Still, if any street is to get improved for cycling around here, it would be Nobel, not LJVD. Maybe in the 2020s?<br /><br />In the mean time... have mirror, will travel... conspicuously controlling the lane at 15 mph in LJVD 50 mph traffic. Yup, sounds crazy, but works great.Serge Issakovnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-44832228878126216062012-03-10T11:48:03.726-05:002012-03-10T11:48:03.726-05:00San Diego is bigger and has other fiscal commitmen...San Diego is bigger and has other fiscal commitments. Long Beach has the audacity to through money at bikes (good for them!). Not all cities and counties will be able to implement the same solutions in the same time frame.<br /><br />And Serge wouldn't suggest forcing people to take the lane at 50MPH. He's likely suggest taking a different route.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4213956784784062266.post-8725901946505310212012-03-10T11:45:52.443-05:002012-03-10T11:45:52.443-05:00Actually, most of what Serge says (regarding vehic...Actually, most of what Serge says (regarding vehicular cycling) is taught by the League of American Bicyclists Traffic Skills courses and Florida's Cycle Savvy courses. When talking about bicycle facility segregation, he's talking one side of transportation theory.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com